Marketing Against The Grain

alright welcome to today's show we're here with da who is one of the biggest youtubers on the planet an overall creative force and we're talking storytelling and we're talking about how brand should work with creators on today's show dart thanks so much for joining us on i'm marketing against the grain today yeah thanks this is a true honor you've built this incredible youtube audience and maybe to just give everybody a little bit of backstory we have a quick video that kinda tells you how we got here hey i have evolution of da okay i love nothing like failing it a bunch of stuff early in life man i mean that's pretty that's pretty exciting you have you so you first of all you have a samsung tv show coming that's congrats that's a big deal thank you i appreciate it there's a lot of people when i would say i'm a youtuber in traditional film that would just sort of roll their eyes and then only what i got to deal with samsung and we started appearing on tv did a lot of folks that actually take us a little bit more serious so it's funny how it works you can have a very large audience a very large you know viewership or even studio but until you actually hit traditional platforms as when traditional folks start to give you a little bit of street cr well and i think that's kind of what the the opportunity is especially for brands or marketers is to go work with people like yourself before all that traditional validation because your youtube audience not just the size but the engagement of that audience it's one of the biggest audiences on video today and if you're outside of the youtube ecosystem you might not realize that but i imagine that you've had huge brand success with your early partners because they were able to support you in a way that might have seen a little risky at the time to maybe some conservative brands but like just walk us through like what does that look like what are the early partnerships there are people watching the show are like oh man how would i ever work with somebody like da to actually get my brand out there yeah it's a great question so since you mentioned an audience stats this all started in my apartment where i was just trying to talk to the camera and help people that were going through some kind of a hard time in their life the same types of hard times that i had been through at that time my format was talking directly to camera nobody would watch those videos yeah just i just keep iterating you know different formats and especially because my messaging was all about not keeping up after your dreams not keeping up after you've been knocked down i couldn't give up on my you know content creation process and putting out videos so it i kept iterating eventually i landed on storytelling and i would just have friends and family members be actors in videos and when i started that new format that's when things took off so you know in the beginning i couldn't even get three hundred and fifty views on a video now we're averaging about three hundred and fifty million views a week u so just for you know some sort of context because when we talked about these big numbers you know it's hard to visualize that's about three times the super bowl audience every week and every day we get more long form views than the game of thrones season finale just to have some sort of context around the numbers across all platform da studios has a hundred and seventy million followers but i look at it more than just audience reach because audience to me are folks that are watching what i'm most passionate about is the community that we've built because the community are a group that is actually emotionally connected and three out of four of our community members say that they feel compelled to take some sort of positive action in their life after watching one of our videos and eighty nine percent of our audience says that watching our videos is actually more therapeutic to them than talking to friends or family members or even a therapist so you know i'm pretty excited about the emotional connection that we've been able to build with our community and that emotional connection now has been able to translate to us working with brands and helping them solve the piece of helping to tell them their stories helping them build communities and you know building an audience that really resonates with their messaging hey if you love the video today we've got a bunch of resources you can scan that qr code on the screen you can click the link in the description below and check those out you said you were started a one format and you iterate your way to another format how long did that take and what were some of the revelations along the way that helped you get into the win format yeah so in the beginning it was me talking to camera the message was like hey what if michael jordan quit playing basketball after he got cut from his high school basketball team and no one would quite watch those videos and then my wife would tell me like don't tell them show them and that really landed on me so i started storytelling instead and i started talking about my own experiences here's what happened in my life here's the lesson that i learned from it and once i started storytelling my views would still i wasn't anything a ton of views but i'd go from you know maybe ten views to like a hundred views and then i started trying different formats where i'd incorporate like two d animations in my messaging to make it more visual i started adding b roll footage that you can license online and none of that was quite again getting me like past you know a thousand views at that time but then i sorta of had this eureka moment where i was writing a script on a napkin i was doing a video about in fidelity and i was talking about how in fidelity could happen with relatively seemingly innocent acts and the story i was coming up with was about this husband who was in the kitchen scrolling facebook and he happened to see his exes post and he was debating if he should like it or not while his wife was cooking him dinner in the kitchen and had her back to him and as writing this i happen to look up and my brother law is visiting me he's in my kitchen scrolling facebook because facebook was the platform back then and hit and my wife's friend was in the kitchen cooking something with her back towards him so that was my big sort of uri eureka moment i walked over them and i said oh my gosh would you guys be in a video of mind mine because keep in mind up until then all my content was just me talking to camera right and they were like yeah we'd love to be in a video but what do we have to and i was like nothing all you have to do is do exactly what you're doing right now i mean hindsight i probably should've have told him that i'm gonna portray as a cheaper for i i didn't think that would actually watch those videos so you know i had my videographer start recording they were just standing there doing an improv and i started na the story and that was the first time i ever got a video to break a million views so that's when i realized i didn't even know it was called live extra fill at that time because i didn't go to film school i never aspire to be a filmmaker i was just trying to put out positive inspirational messages is to help people but you know i'm very grateful that that format caught on well i think one of the things that's interesting is that you started out doing a lot of kind of like production kind of incremental things and it was really like emotion and storytelling that broke you through more than like better camera or b roll and and i imagine you those things mattered once you fail the right storytelling vehicle like those things probably helped you increment to better and better performance but i find but a lot of people who aren't successful in the path that you went down they just get caught in the loop of like i'm just gonna try to make things look better or sound better versus like oh i actually need the audience to feel something very differently like is that what you discovered throughout that whole process yeah absolutely people you're right and can't they get hung up on the quality of videos and all the what versus the wise and you know for me a lot of people think that i live in our analytics dashboard and i'm looking at all the data i'm sure there's a lot of marketers that they obsessed about that but i would say the best retention that you can have is emotional connection if your audience is connected to what you saying they're going to stick around and that has been our secret for success in day one kinda goes back to how i see it that we are not just building an audience we're building a community our community actually takes action when they watch our videos they wanna share our videos they like they subscribe they engage so like when we work with brands we take that same type of psychology we're not just trying to read ad formats in the middle of videos we look at it is how do we actually create some sort of emotional connection between the brand and the audience that they're trying to serve so one great example is when we have the opportunity to be the creator of the week through youtube nfl partnership when i spoke with ten ellis from the nfl and he's like ga what is it that you wanna do first off i was like wow you're actually asking me or not i was shocked because he's listen that's key because there's never any collaboration directly between brands and creators it usually happens between you know if a cmo makes it directive that we need to get into and working with creators that goes down to their sm sv that goes down to you know the ten other people within the company right before then he goes to a brand agency then a creator agency then a creators manager then a creators create a director by the time it get to the actual creator it's how gone go go through seventeen different layers and now it's all really down to these four corner ad brief that really kill creativity but when we have the opportunity to work with the nfl tim was like da what do you wanna do and i knew was important to me that the nfl was trying to show more heart behind the sport right they were having this helmet off strategy so we get to know the players on more of a human level tim said that hey i want the audience to know that the players on the field are humans the coaches are humans the audience members are humans how do we focus on that and so my whole idea was what if the nfl appointed a chief kindness officer and then we went out and started doing all these kind acts associated with football leading up to the actual super bowl in my mind i'm like there's no way two weeks before the super bowl that the cmo of the nfl is gonna prove such an idea maybe if we're talking about twenty twenty nine right like this have so much bureaucracy so much red tape but tim you know i'll give him so much credit he saw the opportunity and then as soon as he realized like the emotional connection behind it he said yes and that turned out to be the most successful creator activation that the nfl has ever done by their own words so our campaign generated just to give you an idea of like the type of content so we take like a high school football team in an under privilege area who didn't have a school locker room and we built them an entire school locker room and we gave them brand new football gear we recorded all of this so that video alone you know probably got about twenty million views then i found out about this boy who had lost his father the father had to promised the boy that i'm gonna take you to a super bowl game never got the chance to so instead we surprised the mom with two super bowl tickets so she could carry out the promised that the father had made to the boy and if you saw that video just bring you to tears because you could imagine how emotional of an experience writing you're crying i just got blurry all of the sudden exactly so you know between all those campaigns we had over a hundred million views over a billion impressions when combining earned media and such but more importantly we had a ninety four percent positive sentiment from watching our videos whereas the nfl historically has been around the sixty five percent range and our video has got a ten point four brand lift through an independent study the highest brand lift through any super bowl commercial was five point two and that was the toyota ad so it was more than double the highest performing super bowl commercial and this was all based on organic views so you know that's to the credit of tim and you know my team that helped put all this together in a very quick amount of time but it just goes to show that if you can move hearts that's how you can move communities so you talk like a lot of what you're talking about is how you can build an an emotional connection to an audience and being a kinda youtube star or being a creator on youtube you're kind of having to think about your audience and you're also having to think about the algorithm and there are like shows on youtube that have done really well da of a ceo is a good example from steven bartlett where if you actually listen to what he's done he's just like really analytical about the algorithm like really trying to solve for every kind of component of the algorithm if you actually look at his show and how his show has evolved it's pretty much just structured around how the algorithm works and what triggers the algorithm how do you think about that balance yeah so so data to us is it amazing feedback loop we are an audience first company and so whereas traditional media players they have to create content hoping that they're gonna find an audience after their show comes out eighteen to twenty four months later for us we actually have a direct relationship where there are audience so we're creating content based on what our audience is asking for so we'll give you one example one of the things that we do is actually let our audience green light what videos that we create and so we do this through allowing them to join surveys where every single week they know that they can come to our survey page they get to choose titles of the videos they get choose themes of our videos they also get a shoes plot points like hey here's five different pitches which would you like see happen when we're deciding whether we wanna build a single video into an actual franchise we go to our audience first and ask them which one they prefer so we build with the audience from the start and because we own our distribution and data we're able to make decisions with them in mind throughout the whole process going back to when i started making content if i had promote i had approached things from a traditional standpoint i would have spent all of my money on my very first video it would've have flopped and i would've have been deep in debt and i never would have gotten off to the ground it took me over a hundred videos before one wet viral but our model works because we spend a fraction of what traditional media cost so when something didn't work i could iterate i could iterate i could keep trying and i think that's the reason that production is down thirty five percent last time i checked within an la film studios are vacant because the old model just isn't working and whereas the traditional model has to go from script to screen in eighteen to twenty four months sometimes multiple years if you look at a marvel project our turnaround time is twenty one days so from the time that we actually write a script to actually premier on our youtube channel there's only three weeks that has gone by and that's on our longest form of content our shortest production window is actually seven days from start to finish and so what does that mean we can get feedback from our community much faster than traditional players and we can iterate all along the way is there ever a time where because i imagine brands think about this when they wanna get into youtube where what the algorithm wants and what you wanna give your audience answering conflict and i'll give you like an example i watch you youtube for most of my content like same but especially for sports content and one of the problems with youtube is everything has to be so stream right and so every piece of analyst now is like this person is slam this person should be suck this person sucks there's no like in between anymore because the has to be opposite into the spectrum to like trigger the algorithm when you're a brand you're trying to figure out like how do i stand out within this noise and i suspect there's times where like what the algorithm wants it's not really where i wanna be you ever feel that tension between what the algorithm wants and what you want to create yeah there's constantly that tension and i think the difference is between someone that creates a company versus someone that actually builds a brand like if you think about disney they have brand equity they actually and for something that's a brand that people are eager to wanna take their children or their girlfriends or wives to to have some sort of special experience because of the emotions that that brand can connects so i'll give you a personal example i often will now try to incorporate ai into our various creative processes and so when i plug in what are our top one hundred performing videos over the past three years help me generate new titles based on that the title started going negative right more clickbait rage bait and so ai to recognizing that there is an audience interest in that and so yeah you know for me i totally understand that we could probably get more of views if we did certain things such as show a little bit more skin or have a little bit more controversial titles going into more steam romance but the moment that we did that there's gonna be some mom out there that happens to be walking by her child watching one of our videos that it's elise says you are not allowed to watch ga i had to sort of learn this by trial and error because even when we would show like cheat videos where somebody is cheating kinda going back to my original example i remember one of my staff members was like my daughter didn't know what cheating was until she saw one of the videos right so they have so then i have to start thinking about these types of things like what types of moral values do i actually wanna convey through our videos in our content i think the interesting part is there is so much negative content that exists in the world right and sure we're all within the media space realizing that that's the way to capture your eyeballs but the more important question is what do you want to be known for what do you want your brand to be associated with for a long time we didn't get brand deals because the brands that were looking to advertise with creators on youtube were not thinking about scripting right and they were thinking about spectacle because anytime you go to youtube if if you're a brand allocating a budget you'd say put the scripted budget within linear and then if we go to youtube i wanna work with a creator that is gonna be doing some sort of big exploding lamborghini or whatever it is right yep and i had my team come up to me my agency was like hey start if you start creating more spectacle based videos you can get a lot more brands interested in working with you so two years ago i had that i was at a really interesting crossroads i had to make a decision which rad was came go i at that time made the decision that we started this whole studio to put out positive content to put out heartfelt content to teeth positive life lessons i'm not gonna alienate our audience in our mission in search of views or in search of brand deals so we stayed true to our mission and up until last year all of our revenue and growth has come from platform revenue just because of how big our audience is and we never relied or even received brand partnerships but an interesting thing has happened in the past twelve months is that brands now are less interested in spectacle based content and they're more interested in emotional connection with audiences and so suddenly who is that player that stayed true to that mission it's us and so this year are like within the first quarter alone our brand partnerships were ten times the amount of the entire last year combined and so it's one of those things that if you stay true to your mission it might seem difficult in the beginning and you might be fore going some opportunities but that strategy will ultimately pay long term dividends don't go chasing in the algorithm stay true to whatever the ethos the mission of the storytelling you're trying to do and in that you like you need to solve for the algorithm the algorithm is a way to get discovered but if you just do solely with the algorithm once you're never gonna have a soul is kind of what you're saying and you're not gonna have any differentiation you're just gonna be in the sea of same with everyone else and i think what's interesting da here and i have a book coming out in the fall it's called loop out learn out market outgrow you can we'll drop a link in for people watching the video we have a whole chapter in there about creators and like one of the thesis there is you have a lot of brands out there doing advertising and most of that advertising is getting ignored right people are just like oh cool like i'm just gonna you know skip your pre roll i'm gonna do all of these things but the creators like yourself have all this deep resonance with their community right like they're not you're not doing these spectacle based things you're driven doing very emotional based storytelling so when a brand partners with you they don't just get like awareness they get the brand halo effect of working with you and what your brand represents what your storytelling represents and that to me is what creators are all about whether your a consumer business a b to b business doesn't matter it's that a creator is built this unique reputation with their audience and even like you deciding with a brand deciding to work with a brand you probably i imagine saying like hey does this brand represent the brand i have built myself and are they going to be complementary and you probably turned down a bunch of partnerships because they're probably not a fit for your audience like maybe tell us a little bit more about how you work with brands how you pick and decide what brands to work with because i think this is so new for so many marketers out there yeah really interesting question so you going back to what i said earlier i'm really grateful that we're were able to build the company without relying on brand deals and that was just by focusing on the audience first trust and owning our own distribution but you know as the landscape shifts we're seeing declining trust add fatigue and more content that's than ever and so brands in order to stand out in the sea of same as you mentioned they're looking for real engagement not just reach and that's where we operate our audience is emotionally invested and they're action oriented which drive stronger performance so you know and thinking about some of the brand activations that we did last year i mentioned the nfl and the chief kindness officer activation another activation that we did was when we were talking to adobe adobe said da one of our goals is to show that we are the official partner for creators and we want you to help us tell that story and i was like oh that's easy because all i have to do is tell the truth because what i was going you but i was going back to starting out back in my apartment i had six hundred dollars my bank account and i went to best buy i get the chills sometimes thinking about this i was looking at a box it was soft lights in a webcam that cost four hundred dollars it was like two thirds of my life savings at that time i bought that i couldn't afford like real camera gear so i had to learn how to fill them everything either in my webcam or my iphone and the third thing that i did was learn adobe premier and that's pretty much the same journey as every creator and so once i realized that hey you know what adobe has been in creators journeys from the very inception now how do we tell that story especially in this world of ai and disruption that adobe is filled there for creators today that's when i came up with the idea of creating an adobe creator training camp and my thought was i will get some og creators some of you know the the biggest creators on the planet i'm gonna assemble them together and i'm gonna have them teach other aspiring creators on how to create and not just by speaking on panels and giving lectures but by actually c creating with them so we had creators learning from creators on how to create and i see that you got a video so yeah check this out billion combined followers and i think that's what's so cool about today you get to learn from other creators adobe really makes the process of freight content so much easier especially now that you get on your phone actually just shot a video with adam it's such an readable experience to be in the same room with so many talented content creators i've never done anything like this to hear from other types of creators expands my inspiration and creativity we're able to create our own voice i taught myself how to edit who just collaborated with matt and rebecca and we're still looking for to working with them i've been using adobe for ten years and what i love the most about is i get to use all the tools under the same adobe umbrella our man is the goat adobe is the goat it makes sense why two goats would come to the other and i do think with our powers combined we pulled off something that nobody has one of the things i love about this is it's one of the ultimate marketing cheat codes you bring a lot of high influence people and let them work together right because the they get a lot of value they're inspired to talk about it they have like they wanna share each other's influence and like this is a great example like adobe was just a ben factor got the whole halo effect of this effort and if you're a marketer out there and you're looking to do something whether it's on a big scale like that's a pretty big scale having a big event having a bunch of people there or a much smaller one off scale you get that through that kinda shared influence and shared but you also said some magical things in their da where it's like you came up with the idea not the company it happened all the all of these brave partnerships seem like they happen quickly right weeks months not years and i i think that adobe example was was really interesting like what you learned from putting that all together you know what's was funny is as i was after i finish my talk doing the keynote at the adobe creators of it i get off stage and this lady comes me and she goes da i want you to look at this this was a brief to work with the creator that the company was signing and there was twenty four signatures required from the brand in order to sign him this contrast and she's like whatever activation we were trying to do with this creator for this cultural moment that was happening that cultural moment already passed so you know there's there's so much red tape and bureaucracy and like if you wanna work with creators you have to move at the speed of creators and creativity not at the speed that you know folks are traditionally used to like i have this acronym that i use and if you follow these five steps these are the five steps that i would say are critical to making it as a successful content creator and the acronym i use is heart h e a r t and so h is honor your story it goes back to even when i was saying i started off in my apartment not with the mission to actually start a company or build a brand i was just trying to help people that's my story and that's baked into my mission everyone listing to this has a story and that's what makes you unique second is e earn your audience is trust always remember why the audience is there in the first place and create content that makes them feel seen and heard third is a architect a system the goal isn't just to create one piece of viral content the goal has to be to create a whole ecosystem that allows for a lot of viral content what makes star man studios unique is that every single week we put out about five hours of content across eighty two different channels so don't just build a content build a company that creates content step four is r and that is reach hearts going back to that emotional connection you can build a large audience but in order to build a community that is actually gonna take action you have to have them emotionally connected to whatever you're creating that's gonna inspire them to share comment engage and ultimately purchase and five t is turned views into impact and that's always about just trying to find ways of giving back and making the world a better place because yeah it's great to make money but i think all of our mission here on this earth is to do something greater than that to give back and help people kip you mentioned you guys have got a book coming out i'm sure that's all about adding value to other aspiring marketers and companies in the world you're turning your views now into impact so if you follow that five step process h e a r t honor your story earn your audiences trust architect to system reach hearts and turn views in into impact you become a very successful content creator or a business owner what do you think are if you apply that to youtube because i think that's one of the predominant platforms people are migrating to with the disruption and search because of ai everyone wants to try to figure out youtube it's a our platinum platform to figure right if you have that framework what are the core beats to get right in a youtube video that really help you trigger both your audience and trigger the algorithm yeah so even when we go back to talking about packaging and we were talking about clickbait and negative titles i'm very cognizant of the world that we live in and so some of our even a lot of our videos they appear as if it's gonna be some sort of a negative storyline like for instance on mother's day we posted a story called son ditch stitches his mom on mother's day that appears to be you know like some sort of a negative story but in actuality if you watch the story it's about a kid who dishes his mom on mother's day learns about the importance and all the things that the mom does for him and then he decides to come back join her and surprises her on that special day so everybody still ends up so it's still a positive message with the positive moral but it could be in packaging that helps to bring in an audience so i would say you always have to start with packaging number one like if we have an amazing story but we can't figure out what the title and the thumbnail is gonna be then i say we don't have an amazing story so packaging is your first gatekeeper creators like to say that packaging is about eighty percent of the success of a video the reason that can be somewhat of a misleading statistic is because if that's eighty percent then what the actual content and the editing and the directing the shooting and the actors and every the story is like twenty percent that doesn't make sense so what i've come to realize is it's like you're trying to drive to the beach and there's different guard rails that you have to get through every single time and so eighty percent of that effort i would say is in that first guard rail which is the packaging if you don't get past the packaging you will never make it to guard rail two which is the actual pitch of the story so how we spend most of our time is thinking about what the packaging of that video is gonna be once you get through the packaging then you could start to put together what is the what is the pitch if i had to explain this video to you in thirty seconds how would i describe it and it's just like you know folks call an elevator pitch within business content you worked that same way you should be able to explain like kip you did an amazing job when we started out just saying what the audience is gonna gain from this video where with da we're gonna learn about creators how brands can work with creators how you could opt optimize your content how you can grow your following right like you're giving the value proposition upfront and then that also includes whatever your hook is because you want the opening of your video to match whatever the packaging is like if i was to share my screen and show you you know one of our our last video is called five ex boyfriends won't let their sister date and so when he open that video within twenty seconds you're gonna see the five ex boyfriends preventing the girls love interest from being able to date because if you're not getting that experience that you clicked on then people feel like they're gonna be bamboo and they're gonna swipe away so whatever the core idea of your packaging is try to deliver that in the first ten seconds if not definitely within the first thirty seconds and then from there you know it's what we know where traditional media i would say starts with inception rising action climax falling action resolution this is just a classic story structure within youtube it has to happen on a much a faster accelerated basis you almost have to start with the clock in hats you have very little time of rising action you have to get to the climax and then you have to keep building from there so you have to be able to tell that story much more concise and you know if you're wondering where you're starting to lose your audience interest or how you can improve your through rate of course you can just look at your retention graphs for each video and that will usually give you a sign as the areas that you're losing audience interest that's awesome that a master class like that that two minute clip is what anybody needs to to watch if you're if you're creating on youtube last one for me start what what's like one thing that has surprised you about your journey anywhere in youtube that works much better than you thought or is overblown and doesn't work anywhere near as much as you were told youtubers can't make it more than five years right like enjoy your five stack into fame kind of a thing you can't build a real business off of youtube and i think now with the way that creators have evolved into real businesses like we don't just have audiences we're not just talent we're running real vertically integrated media companies right we're not just distribution anymore we are actually creative we're production and we're strategy so what's amazing to me is how big of a platform that you could build by being a youtuber or having any sort of really engaged audience youtube is definitely the platform where you can have the most connected audience why because it's long form storytelling like how are you gonna be able to build a close audience when you're doing thirty second reels and you're just at the mercy of the algorithm with most of our viewers people are actually searching our man coming to our channel they're wanting to see our videos versus it just being suggested in their feed and because we've been able to build a real business you know now whereas before if you had ask me two years ago ninety five percent of our revenue was built off of just platform revenue that's adsense sense from youtube and facebook through the ads that that play in the commercial breaks between our content now we're such a diversified business that twenty percent of our revenue comes from youtube twenty percent of our revenue comes from facebook twenty percent of our revenue comes from an in house agency and then the rest gets spread out between fast our partnership with samsung where we reach over a hundred million households and we we're the first created to come to have a deal with samsung to do original content that actually comes out in june it's our series called unlikely romance with samsung second is vertical dramas now we've announced a partnership with fox where we're jv v to create forty films for their vertical drama platform called holy water third we are about to announce a landmark deal with another major studio in the sv fo linear space fourth we also are now going into audio with the launch of my podcast that comes out on may eighteenth and finally is brand partnerships which is becoming a more meaningful part of our business so look at just through a youtube business in community how much of a flywheel we were able to create to build other businesses on top of it so i'd say people probably still underestimate i know i did how big of an opportunity it is to create an audience that's really connected with your content and mission on youtube i think what's fascinating is you're showing people both creators who want to build a real business that you can anchor that on youtube and then really expand and that's kind of what you're you're saying and you got the podcast coming up you've got the new script to show with samsung but i think the same thing holds true for brands that if you're a brand you can go and place ads a bunch of different places but you're better off to work with really awesome creators like yourself because one you get your your creative ideas you get the audience affinity but as the creators who partner with grow and scale you also then have new platforms new channels to work with them on and it's not like you're limited to you know the amount of thirty second slots that are out there and so i i think you've given everyone a way to rethink how they can partner and how they can build their own own content and quite frankly it's just been really inspiring to hear your story starting out from literally like six hundred dollars in your bank account and now seems like every quarter you've got some awesome new project that's coming out you've been able like scale your impact in a really remarkable way congrats on your success star i really appreciate it and yeah i mean if i'm just for one takeaway for brands out there you know you don't just need influencers you need a whole creator infrastructure and creator ecosystems don't think of influencers as transactional relationships or one off deals where they're just gonna be doing ad and interrupting the content try to form direct relationships with creators and that real creativity comes from those conversations and the collaboration between brand and influencer rather than in ad brief i'm sure you're gonna be hitting out of these things in your book yeah we we cover a lot of that at the book but there's also like that was great party advice and to recap on the other device is like trust the creator understand that it's a whole different speed and process that has to happen like those three pieces of advice plus the framework i think are really valuable lessons for anybody out there who's trying to work and partnered with creators to create great content so da thanks so much for joining us on marketing against the grain we appreciate it you were up very early to make this happen for us so we appreciate you thank you so much thanks guys is real honor i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and to the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge where you get your podcast this data is wrong april freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrate well i can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hotspot hubspot grow at him

we have something exciting mir mu who was the former cto of open started this new company thinking machine ready and they just had their big first announcement and it's all about voice say absolutely i'm ready what's up here's a live demo from thinking machines yeah so we're giving an announcement today and i've got two of my friends coming to health every time one of them enters the frame i need you to say friend got it i'll say friend whenever one of them walks in so this is having the ai use video and voice in real time to take some action yeah you can stream input into it in real time and it can respond to you even while you're speaking to it simultaneously how does that sound sounds like a solid app full duplex with real time our interaction is super useful friend hey everyone alright so you see the model using the video it knew that the guy walked in followed the set of instructions friends so you could imagine doing the same thing was saying hey when somebody calls with this question respond in this way you could see that voice can become a much more proactive and live integrated and so the big trend and what mir and thinking machines team have done is introduced a concept that real time voice is going to be one of the next big frontiers in ai but to make it interesting i'll do it in hindi can you translate in into in english in real time for my friend and for audience absolutely i'll translate as you go preview today we're taking a look at our preview model release it this is gonna be really transformative for how people works the multilingual side of this is super fascinating to get hindi to english in real time from a translation perspective fascinating and then again it's gonna say friend like it just did because you had a second person walk in and so it's showing you the power of the model to be able to interact in real time with this context from the video this is gonna be a next huge shift in ai we're going from this chat bot to real time audio that can actually interject in real time translate in real time assess what's happening in video real time it's gonna unlock the ability to have brand new experiences and to solve problems in new and different ways the hottest trend in ai right now isn't in video it isn't an agents it's voice and that's because they've been too huge foundational technology breakthroughs they're gonna shape the way you your business your brand show up through ai through voice and your brand is about to get a literal voice online and that is going to be really powerful the first big thing that's happened is that open ai just a few days ago released a new update it's called gp real time two voice and what's gonna be much better than me explaining this is to show you a quick video of how this works open ai just pushed voice ai into a completely different level and the biggest change is not only that the ai sounds better the real change is how naturally it can now hold conversations is let me pull the latest context and update your crm sa crest launched warehouse automation this morning earlier voice assistants often felt slow and awkward so the big change here the big gap that's been in place with ai voice it's been that there's been a lot of latency in terms of going back and forth and doing voice in real time which is the big unlock right think of all of the use cases call centers how you interact with technology websites etcetera look this is one of those topics where the more you dig again there's more to work with so we put together a free resource that get you all the specifics and covers a lot what we didn't get into or have time to cover here you can click the link in the description where scan the qr code take the full resources of how to adopt voice ai for your company open has made really big strides here and the interesting thing about this we had a big announcement from a company called thinking machines thinking machines was founded by the former chief technology officer of open thinking machines have gone after and solved that big problem i was just talking about the problem of latency yes open ai has solved a lot of it but thinking machines seems to be out of the gate even better at that latency problem let's take a quick look i heard mountain biking as a lot of fun so i wanted to go mountain bike and i was thinking to actually take my parents with me they're pretty old they're seventy almost eighty but i thought that would be a fun trip together wait no don't take the mountain biking at eighty that's incredibly risky they could easily get seriously hurt pick something safer i think i love that he tried to take his spirits mountain biking on the normal mountain bike we can do like tandem bikes might they more sturdy and we can find like you know some volcano or better like an active volcano stop and active volcano is deadly okay he's he's trying to be hyper obamacare taking his seventy eight year old parents mountain biking or taking them to an active volcano that's not the point what the point is is that the latency the speed of these models to react in real time has gotten so that the model could interrupt him and in the flow of normal speech as a human would go in interject it's hey that's a really bad idea what they're actually trying to demonstrate is that voice ai is crossing a chasm from this like very reactive dictation mode type of technology to very proactive technology that can be your partner can interject can make you better just as if you were like having a a chat based conversation and this is especially valuable and maybe somebody interacting with you on your website from a marketing perspective somebody needs a customer support ticket those types of things are going to be really transformed by this type of technology and so making machines starting and voice ai i think and this being their first big announcement is pretty wild it's a real signal that there's gonna be more and more competition and more competition gonna lead to more innovation for these fundamental technologies around voice you're like cool these two big startups ups that have released this real time ai technology what does this actually mean for me what does it actually mean for my business and there's a couple of things here right you solve these big announcements which is great but how it handles the pause how it starts becoming part of the kind of normal way of working shows that it can actually become part of society and the that starts getting integrated into just how we work becomes a marketing opportunity becomes something that marketers have to think about i've have to decide hey am i going to participate am i gonna be a part of this and i'm bringing this up at a time when ai feels completely overwhelming right there's is new ai stuff all the time and i'm not here to tell you that oh real time voice like that's so cool and this is the new thing what i'm saying is that this trend is just getting started and what i'm doing is predicting that over the next couple of years you're going to see a mass increase in ai voice across all the ways you and your customers interact and those become marketing opportunities so if you're thinking out there you're a founder you're a marketer and you're like how do i actually need to think about this trend in capitalizing on this trend there's a few things i'd recommend you do would not do the first is you now have an actual brand voice like your actual brand has a tone and we've talked about pass shows that brands are starting to create custom avatars ai actors for their videos you're going to need a custom voice that represents your brand and there's great tools to do that you can do that in eleven labs and several other models maybe in a future show you can leave a comment if you want us to show you how to create a custom brand voice we can do that but this is one thing that you're gonna have to consider and this is a really good example of the trap that comes up here technology like this which is like voice apis in real time seems do it seems like something you would have your it person go and deal with if you have your it person whether you're a cio at a big company or you just have like an outsource it person a smaller company you're going to miss a lot of the marketing and growth benefits of this type of technology the first thing like i said is you're not gonna actually be able to communicate what your brand is through this voice and there's going to be a lot of aspects is your brand warm is it friendly that what accent does it have all of these things that within a few words you can communicate to somebody just through what that voice is in a way that like sometimes you only get a few words nowadays attention is so scarce so you do not want to miss the opportunity and so the number one thing here is you have to start thinking of voice as a channel and a modality and i think that's very different i think when it comes to ai most people i talk to are ai is text and ai is chatting a text spot or if for if you're little advanced building an agent when buyer ask ai for a solution like yours does your business come up most companies have no idea and by the time they find out they already lost the deal to someone who did hubspot au helps you show up in those moments with the right answers buyers are looking for before the first click before the first form fill that's the moment hubspot is built for head to hubspot dot com slash au o to try that tool for free today what we're saying now is that chat is moving to voice and voice is going to become a channel that customers expect to interact with me and perspective customer expected interact me one the second is because it's a channel i have to care about how my brand shows up in that channel and i have to know what my tone is what my actual custom voice is and show up in the way that i'm looking to make happen then there's also just basic instructions that you're going to need to give these voice bots just like you might do at claude or chat gp where you're writing system prompts or custom sets of instructions and we've done experiments at hubspot people will talk to these voice agents for like five ten fifteen minutes and in those times you don't want that discussion to go widely off the rails and so you need to keep that voice agent trained and focused on the task hips so custom instructions are gonna be a big part as you start to test and rollout out technology like this the biggest thing here is you want people to understand that this is an ai interaction but you wanted to sail natural and human you know the technology is still developing this is why i this is not like you have to go do this all what i'm telling you immediately it's says wow this is a big step forward in a technology and i think it's gonna keep improving at a very exponential rate over the course of the next year and what i'm trying to help you with is it's not wake up it's say oh gosh i'm way behind and i have to do all this voice stuff it is to stay on the trend and start building the foundation right the biggest thing here as you're building this isn't that you have to have like a human sounding voice the goal is to be about brand sounding like we're talking about earlier it has to represent your company your brand to just be a random voice agent of some random voice that's gonna to be okay but that's not going to be what the best companies do the best companies are gonna make sure that their brand and who they are their values come through in these new voice experiences so i wanna show you a third video in the show today and this is about an example from a company sesame ai which kinda hopefully brings this third point i'm making to life which is it's about how do you make this voice engaging representative of your brand not just human sounding but motive and connected it to the company you're building and the brand you're building so we're gonna get a quick demo here let's open it up let me see if if this will work this week's ai for humans we did a big chunk on it and one thing i'll say while alex is pulling this up is i oh yeah long day for you or just getting started i might can you give this a second i'm with gavin purse we're doing recording a podcast he was just making a point and then we're gonna we'd like to chat with you but gavin why don't you finish what you were saying and then we'll we'll pull my head back in sure so i i that's so the goal here is to have a voice experience that represents who your company is and what your brand is and for those first seconds or minutes that somebody might interact with you in voice to be representative of who you really are in the company you're trying to be well then what do you actually do call your company that's right does your company have a phone number first of all if it doesn't that's problem one and forget this show and go get yourself a phone number and a way to answer the phone but call your company and does it have this old school robotic answering does it sound like your company at all is it a pleasant experience at all if it's not this is job one fixing that basic interaction one of the things that i've learned over time is because phone systems data are not like as digital and is easily accessible in many cases as your website data and other sources of marketing and often gets ignored and buried so i would actually just go and just understand where the baseline is understand how many people call that number how do they get routed after they call that number and then can i go call that number myself and get an actual understanding of what that experience is for most companies all likely it's gonna be really bad i did this a few years ago and it was literal gold we had way more conversations coming in than we thought and we were not handling them the best way possible and so to continue to audit yourself and just know that there are new technology that could make these experiences way better but before you need to worry about the new technology how were you doing like what is actually happening alright so you're gonna get a baseline then like you have to start caring about it you know you have to then say great well what should the experience be what should this thing sound like how should that routing actually work if i was gonna use one of these technologies what is the strategy what are the rules to make it work and make it work for me and if you believe this is a trend and if you're watching this far in the video you probably do you need some accountability you need to make some progress so today i wanna close out with a couple of i think fun and interesting predictions to close up the show my first is within twelve months an unknown brand is gonna go viral for having a really awesome voice agent experience that's going to have fun personality answer questions in a remarkable way and they're gonna get millions of not tens of millions of dollars of media exposure for doing this in a cool industry way could be you the next is is there's going to be a category of voice first marketing and marketers that happen and these early pioneers and voice are going to actually have a different surface area a different way of working than a lot of the tech based marketers and there's gonna be big opportunity and if you're a marketer and you're looking to grow your career voice could be able to a focus and differentiate and accelerate your career and your progress much faster there's also there's always good there's always about my third prediction is that there's probably gonna be some wild lawsuit or scandal about a voice agent making a really bad mistake because these things keep happening and hallucinations and lack of clear instructions are still an issue for these models and what's happening in the world and so this is what's gonna also have a high risk of happening if voice is lift solely to the it team or technical team you want it to be a partnership between the technical team and the marketer to make sure that these experiences are both accurate and on brand so here's my takeaway it's not voice ai is here everybody knows that voice ai has been a bubbling trend for a while the takeaway is your brand about to have an actual voice a literal one customers are going to hear it more than they read your copy long term i think and if marketing isn't running it somebody else in your company is you're not gonna like how it sounds and if it's gonna be a big surface area for your customers what are you doing as a marketer or not being a part of that so go make the call to your own company get that on experience i'd love to hear if you have any wild stories post them in the comments below would love to hear what you learn in going through this experience but i think it's the first step to actually learn what you should do with this new and rise category of voice ai drop a comment with any future questions on voice hit like hit subscribe and we'll see it real soon on marketing against the grain i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and to the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated well i can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hubspot grow

today we're covering the single best ai productivity workflow i have ever seen you are going to get a second brain we're joined by matt wolf he's gonna break down how to build this system in fifteen minutes and it's gonna transform your personal productivity and your work life let's get to today's show day on the show we are gonna show you how to build a second brain i'm joined by matt wolf and he gonna break down how to take all of the information your meetings your notes to basically build the second brain personal wiki so that you can always have access to everything you need and basically be a hundred times smarter than you are today so matt welcome to the show thanks so much for being here yeah thanks for having me you again love it when you come on you always have really dope things to show and what we're show you today i would argue is like the most popular non coding use of something like cloud code or open eyes codecs that exists right now and it all started with a tweet from ar carp who is one of the early pioneers of artificial intelligence maybe like give us a little background of like what the heck we're talking about here yeah so this tweet here is from andre ka and this sort of set off the whole thing where everybody was talking about building these ll wiki and his tweet here actually kinda gets into the weeds but you can see twenty point eight million views it's a lot so this one post here kind of set people down this path but essentially what this tweet is saying is that he was experimenting with building like this internal wiki what he's doing is he's going around and he's using ob which we'll talk about what ob cdn is in a minute here and he was using a ide or coding platform this actually works with you know claude c cloud code or codecs or cursor or any tool you wanna use it doesn't really matter i personally use codecs but what you do is you use your ide and you save these markdown files into ob so the way i've been using it just to kind of clarify what i'm talking about here is i watch a lot of youtube videos and i read a lot of articles and i save the transcripts and those articles all into this ob sort of markdown database and what happens is these just build up and build up and build up well this layer that andre carp sort of mapped out here is the layer where an ll looks at all of the stuff that you're throwing inside of ob city and all of these markdown down files of transcripts and articles and things like that it looks at all of these and sort of cross links some when you think of something like wikipedia you'll read a wikipedia article and you'll see somebody's name mentioned to the wikipedia article you click on that person's name and it links to the wikipedia article of that person and you read that article and maybe talks about the product that they invented and you click on that link and it links to the wikipedia page of the product that person invented and everything just sort of becomes this like network of interconnected information so that's essentially what it is i don't know if that explanation was two in the weeds but it's like your own little personal curated internet exactly right it's just like you've almost created all the stuff that you like and the all are stitching it together to make it its own little mini internet that serves as a context for any work you wanna do any questions you might have anything you wanna do on your day to day life is that right yeah exactly exactly and it finds the interconnection between the things as well so sometimes they'll even find connections between things where maybe you're not making the connection between right so like maybe you're putting in information about you know ae and you're putting in information about facebook ads and those are two separate like little silos inside of your document database but it'll realize that those are both about marketing and growing your business and it'll find those interconnection and sort of link those things together as well so it starts to build out this network of inter linked information and ideas and sometimes it'll find inter that you might not even be thinking of which is the magic of having an l working in the background and do all the things you don't have the time or wouldn't think of in the first place exactly exactly if you're like me and you're watching show you're like i gotta go do this now i wanna try to build this we've got you you can scan the qr code or you can click the link in the description below we've got all of the resources all the instructions you need to build this yourself so again scan that qr code click the link and get started today so we have this tweet that was read by twenty million people it has inspired thousands tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of people like yourself to go and build these systems that you just described maybe take us through like you mentioned the ob subsidiary thing i'm not a web developer we're talking to founders and marketers who probably aren't spinning all their day in ide ease and all these technical things like give us the like lay of the land like hey i'm just a guy who wants to be smarter and have more information what am i gotta do so you've got two main tools here you've got ob this is ob on my screen right here now ob is just a markdown file organizer so a markdown file is essentially just a text file with some additional formatting on it that's really all it is this is like a markdown file here this is my index markdown file and you can actually see everything that's saved into my wiki here this is like a just a giant table contents off everything yep so you can see down here here's different concepts that are saved into it but again this is just a text file with some extra formatting on it but all of these inner inter link to these concepts right so i've got topics and entities here you could see i've got answer engine optimization as one of them there's seven sources inside of my wiki for answer engine optimization i click into this page you can see it sort of is inter linked into this answer engine optimization and then down here you can see here's the seven sources of content that i have about this specific topic and all of this stuff kind of cross links between each other i didn't do any of that cross linking that's the large language model reading these text files and going this text file kinda looks like this text file mh let's connect the two so that's what ob is it's just a a markdown file organizer so if i click into concepts here each one of these concepts is essentially just another text file that links to other text files and so ob epsilon is a free application that you download yes how do you get stuff into it okay so ob upstate also has a chrome extension so if i open up my chrome here we've got this ob upstate chrome extension up here and i literally just click this and it will pull it in so right now i'm looking at a tweet and you can see here's the entire tweet i just clicked add to ob and they profile inside of my knowledge base okay so what we have here is this free ob app that is essentially a knowledge based personal wiki and the private way you get stuff in there i assume you can manually copy and paste stuff in there but the primary way is through like chrome extension where you're just like hey i'm consuming this thing i assumed as like transcripts of youtube videos and all that kind of stuff and you're just popping them right in yep exactly exactly like in fact here's the future pdf youtube channel here i actually didn't add this video about a here because i wanted to have one that was an actual example here so if i come up to the ob upstate web clipper it takes a second but look it's got the entire trends nice i see already here so i just press this one button and it saves it into my ob upstate vault so yeah now we've got this entire transcript from this video with kevin in it all here inside of my city vault now this one that i just saved in here it's not processed yet see it's in this folder called raw and this is just anything i dump in here this is my inbox this is where the stuff gets saved now you need to have the ll sort of review all of this find the interconnection file it into concepts break it out into you know what youtube channel it came from and do all of that kind of stuff that's where we start playing around with codecs or you know it could be cloud code it could be clogged yep whatever somebody wants to use in this whatever you wanna use were you talking about codecs today because your codecs yeah so i use codecs for this and what i do in codecs is i would literally come here and just say process all the files in the raw folder all i need to do and it knows exactly how to process the files in the raw folder and the way it processes the files in the raw folder is inside of your ob database you've got this little file here called agents dot md this literally tells codecs or whatever ide you're using it tells it how to handle specific prompts mh so essentially think of a sub prompts these are just prompts that if i tell it to go and process something well i've got down here the ingest when the user adds a source and ask the l to process it do these steps and this is just a prompt so it's just taking this specific prompt here and throwing it into codecs and now codecs is running this entire prompt for me read the source from the raw before processing validate the same source url hasn't already been processed a lot of times i'll throw the same youtube video in there not realizing i've already saved it once so it has a little double check on it create or update generated sources create update top pages in the wiki slash topics create update the entity overview synthesis or comparison pages so usually it takes like two minutes to process but one other thing that i like about codecs is they've got these automations here and i can actually set these automations to run on a schedule so if i click in here this is just a prompt that's gonna run on a schedule if there are any un processed files in the raw directory please process them now and this one actually is set to run at twelve fifty am pretty much every single day so this just happens at night every single night i'll just be kind of dumping stuff in throughout the day all day long and then at night when i'm asleep it processes everything that was in the raw folder i just manually told it to process this now so we can kinda see what happens but this actually does happen in the background without me actually needing to do anything on a normal basis and so what's happening is like you're going out your clip and stuff it's going to that raw folder then the agents going in reading at all interconnect it and making it easily accessible for the future because you might park it there for days weeks until you're ready in this case you did an ao or call you're saying okay i'm working on an project and i've got these specific questions and then it's gonna go access that and all the other content really quickly to get you the best answer possible exactly exactly in fact i actually gave it this prompt before we jumped on oh please based on what i saved into the wiki tell me the best strategy to get my website future tools to show up within chat gp and claude responses and we could see this should optimize less like a directory and more like a said recommendation authority the highest leverage strategy you can see exactly what it referenced from within my wiki here keep the gates open your robots dot text currently allows all which is good open says oa search bot controls chat gp search inclusion and says clutch search bot etcetera here keep those allowed monitor logs and treat training bots separately from search retrieval bot and then it shows the sources and these are various sources inside of my wiki yeah it's pretty remarkable that you can get just a super high quality and also concise response i would say it's not like this like long typical ll of like let me generate a thirty page report that doesn't say much of anything for you right right and it can do that because when you've given it good instructions and you've given it all the good context matt we are doing this in codecs and for folks who aren't familiar with codecs maybe just explain what the heck codecs is and how do you set it up yeah so codecs is sort of chat gp version of cloud code right it's their app for essentially writing code and you mentioned that that last response was fairly concise well that's one of the things that codecs is known for when you think of like chat gp versus codecs mh they're a sort of buzz word now called harness right they're both using the same underlying large language model but the system prompt around each one is different codecs is actually tuned to be very concise get to the point just write the code that's necessary and don't sort of ramble on i can actually tell codecs you know treat this like a chat gp response don't be brief ramble as much as you want and it will actually give me a long sort of drawn out message same with chat chat tends to be optimized to give you longer more detailed messages but if you gave it a prompt be as concise as possible tell me as little as i possibly need to know it we'll do that as well but codecs is just like their sort of app for doing code so if you ever use visual studio code if you've ever used claude code if you've ever used cursor or whatever this is kind of chat gp or open version of that it is their platform for writing code and if you've ever used any of those other ones that are sort of based on visual studio code this one looks quite a bit different but it's designed to just be very simple and give you just what you need to know and what you need to do and not a whole lot else so you get this by just going to open on open website i believe they just have like a link to download it's a standalone app on your computer and what i what i like about it matt is it's a little less intimidating than cloud code like there's some actual ui and structure you're not just in a terminal window which i think can be intimidating for people who aren't used to being in a terminal window but you're just gonna go and and download codecs like you're showing here and it's gonna use just whatever credits you have in your chat gp subscription whether it's free or max or anywhere in between like that's it's just gonna consume whatever you have access to in your regular chat gp account yeah exactly the app itself is free to use the bigger the open account you have right you've got like the eight dollar a month go plan all the way up to the two hundred dollar a month pro plan and depending on which plan you have you get a different amount of credit or tokens to use inside even free plans even if you're on a chat free plan you do get a certain amount of usage yeah but the usage is you know it grows based on how big of a plan you've got but you can absolutely do this with the free plan you you don't actually need to have a codex or a chat g paid plan to do what we're showing off here you know that feeling when the strategy is done the brief is written everyone's aligned and you realize someone still has the it down and actually create all that content that someone is you and it's due tomorrow breeze assistant from hubspot can help it works right inside hubspot drafting campaign copy blog post emails all in your voice all ground in your actual customer data so you don't have to create content you create content that converts check out hubspot dot com to learn more yeah and so when we go back into codecs what we're really saying is like we now have this kind of easy to use way to access this personal wiki that you build over in ob citi right it's like got this little personal internet wiki database codecs has access to everything the question here is like how do codex get access to it before we go and talk about some of the queen's use cases here so when you set up a ob cdn for the first time it's gonna say what folder do you wanna install ob on you install it in whatever folder you want on your hard drive and then when you come into codecs here you would just click on create a new project use an existing folder when you select this use an existing folder you would just select whatever folder you would installed your ob city in vault on and then it can just read everything inside of that folder from here on out that's as simple as it is so that's how it does that but you can actually go even further with codecs and give it access to a whole bunch of other stuff right so you can give it access to chrome this is actually brand new oh that's the just it access to chrome like this week that we're recording this could give it access to spreadsheets github slack notion mine has access to my gmail my google calendar my google drive so it could actually cross reference stuff that i'm asking it with my calendar it can actually read my emails one of the things that i often do inside of codecs now is say skim my entire inbox and look for emails that you can respond to based on what's on my calendar and what's in my wiki so it will actually use that information to help respond to emails as well so you can do some really really cool stuff once you start start adding in some of these plug as well and i think what's really interesting about it matt is that we were talking before the show and we're like you know is really awesome like there's so much you can do here and it's also like you can do so much and accomplish nothing right yeah yeah because there's so much to build you could just keep piling information and information into a system like this and you're like wait i'm like a weekend and i have this really cool second brain but like i'm not using it for that much yeah and so what i wanted to talk about before we close out was just like what are the ways if i was trying to grow a business if i was a marketer as an entrepreneur that i would use the system like this to be really powerful for me you know i i'm constantly in consume mode but i feel like a lot of the stuff that i consume just sort of goes nowhere i consume it and then it's kind of like i gotta move on with my life this is a way to sort of res it again in the future so one of the things you can do is you can actually create an automation here and let's say like every day at nine am send me a message with some recommendations of what i can do in my business based on some of the stuff i've recently saved into my wiki i actually have a morning brief synced up to my slack where every morning in slack i get a message at nine am that says like based on the stuff that you've saved inside of your wiki over the last couple weeks here's what i recommend you try next and it just proactively very cool brings me things that's one of the directions ai is moving into right now that i'm sort of most excited about is ai being more proactive versus you needing to go and prompt it all the time we're getting to a point now where ai is starting to run on either like cro jobs or like these automations inside of something like codecs where it can actually start to like come to you and say hey here's what i think you should be doing next so i really really love that element of it but some of the other things that i'm doing with it is i created a sort of personal networking crm inside of it as well so whenever i meet somebody at a conference i say like here's the name here's what i met them it automatically knows the date already just from the date i'm entering it here's some of the things we talked about and then later on if i bump into that person at another event i can kinda you know pull up in my phone i mean this question again and it'll say oh yeah you met this person at this place they have a dog named this you guys talked about you know baseball for a little bit or or whatever right and i can quickly remember what conversation i had with that person six months ago and i've actively used that and works really really well so i've i've been doing that kind of stuff and it saves the the the contact information of the people inside of the wiki as well would say this whole category we talk about is like kinda proactive personal productivity where exactly ai and agents are helping you be more productive but not like you having to remember to ask them all these things but like they're starting to insert themselves into your kind of core workflow and daily schedule which is super cool because email slack and calendar access lets them do that in the ability to to schedule tasks and everything kinda makes all of that possible which is really really cool i think there's some other really cool marketing use cases here mh one is like everybody's always interested what their competitors are doing you can easily see making a competitive intelligence database here right where you have agents that are looking for changes on websites looking for new products looking for new news articles all of those things and not just giving you summaries but giving you proactive recommendations on if you need to do something based on this information right absolutely like i i've got one automation set up so a lot of sites these days don't use rs feeds anymore which kind of bum me out really set up it's really easy to set up in automation where whenever open ai or and throw make writes a new blog post the rs feed like alerts you hey there's a new post on this site but those two specific sites don't have rs feeds so i actually set up an automation that looks at the website's site map and alerts me whenever there's a new page added to the website's site map and so i get like almost instant notifications whenever ant philanthropic open ai google deep mind meta ai blog any of these websites actually add a new page to their site map now sometimes it's like they updated their terms of service or something like that right but i would say ninety five percent of the time it's a new blog post that i'm getting almost like instantly the the moment it goes up so that's a you know one of the secret weapons that i used to stay on top of the news as it's happening is like create a little agent that's constantly watching the site maps of these websites for a new page added to the site map well and when you assure the plug a minute ago we've you you talked about that chrome became a new plugin and it's not just like getting data from chrome it's that codecs can use chrome to browse absolutely right and if you're a marketer that's really really powerful because then you can use codecs for ae audits you can use it for add testing and optimization you can use it for website audits for product marketing collateral audits all of these things where you can basically just build a section of your wiki that you know product marketing knowledge best practices skills and then have codecs go and deploy it on whatever part of your site or a competitor site that you're working on that day and honestly that setup is gonna save you so much time because you've think you're able to just like speed all of the work and optimization and really like go through all the iterations and options you might have as you're trying to rethink that work which i think probably makes codecs for marketers the most interesting option to run this system in because the computer use is i think the best currently in codecs yeah yeah it works really well i will admit the computer use and the chrome use they're almost agonizing slow if you try to sit there and watch it go and do this tough that you're just kinda like i need to walk away yeah yeah you need to walk away like i almost wanna start moving the mouse for it and mean like alright but let me nudge you along here but they they they do work really really well one other use case that i i really love that sort of ties back to the wiki and this is some thing i really gotten the habit of doing is i'm a big journal myself so at the end of every single day i loved to just sort of journal on my day i i love to say like here's the stuff that i accomplished throughout the day here's the things that i build here's the conversations i had as well as you know struggles here something that i'm still struggling with i need an idea for a video for tuesday but i don't have an idea yet or you know whatever's is on my mind i just sort of brain dump it all into a journal and i journal now directly into codecs and i don't know if you notice but when i was showing you my ob vault here there is actually a journal sort of code you know code here and what it actually does is it cross references my journal with everything that's in my wiki so i save a lot of mindset stuff in my wiki i saved a lot of like youtube growth strategy stuff in my wiki things like that and it will actually read my journal entry and then say based on everything you saved over time here's what i found that's relevant to what you just journal on and for me that's probably been the absolute most useful helpful thing that i've done with all of this is just journal on everything just brain dump everything that's in my head and let it use the wiki and it also will pull the knowledge from like the the l knowledge that's just you know trained on anyway but it will sort of ground itself with the wiki first and it'll say hey this video from you know mark has as bran said you should be thinking about this this video you know from future pdf said you should try this right so it will actually pull in a lot of the stuff from the wiki and combine that with the sort of general knowledge that's in the ll and i don't know if you've ever like journal into chat gp but it's usually pretty helpful and has some pretty good advice yeah that does but now the advice is very very very tailored to the type of content you're looking and actively consuming as well that's pretty sweet okay so like closing thought of where i think this is all going is that ai is still very single player mode right like if you look at what we talked about today it's like this is all just math stuff and the files actually sit on your computer right they're not in the cloud yep all of this stuff resides on your actual computer and i think this is gonna be transformative for teams as this technology continues to evolve and imagine you're on a small team and all of you you have this collaborative wiki of context is gonna be really valuable and i think gonna be a game changer the other like just pet rock i have matt and a we keep talking about this here and i offline is like i can't wait for there to be a book format that's just a markdown file like when you pay a lot of money for just a markdown file of some of the books you love to be able to like inject them into these types of systems yeah i would love that i mean right now i think the bottleneck is probably more context windows from these models than anything else but yeah i mean that would but you still can't go and get the raw text file of the book anywhere yeah i mean if you look hard enough there's definitely places but they're not there there's some ethical questions there correct meta and philanthropic have already gone those routes i that's fair i was saying you're near mortal like me love to pay like the thirty bucks and have the context of this book in my ai systems i think k and i just finished the loop marketing book and i think we're going to probably have a special markdown file version for people so they can do that which which would be pretty cool but yeah i wouldn't be surprised if you know author start doing that is this sort of like value add thing that would be kind of cool to see i mean can also see why they absolutely would not wanna do that but it would be kind of cool i can see some marketer brains doing that as well this marketer brain is gonna do it because i want the ideas to spread and this how get the idea to spread if you're optimizing for idea spread i think it's a very smart smart thing to do so i don't think there's the flash in the pan use case or or product to me this seems like we're very early on and what is going to be just a new way that a lot of individuals and in the future teams work and i think we just went over some really helpful use cases for both personal productivity and for marketing that can take this system in action and my last closing question for matt people probably wondering wow it looks like matt's spent a bunch of time to do all this like how long do you think it takes to get like a good basic version of this up and running probably fifteen minutes or and i say that because andre carp he actually put up a a page on github with this method so you can literally open up your codecs open up your ob city involved copy and paste his github page in and say build this for me and then just let ai sort of build the initial bones for you so just doing it that way is very very very quick you know and then obviously the amount of time it takes to just like inject new stuff into it that's that's a sort of ongoing for minutes a day kind of thing yeah but you can set it up really really quickly because you can just point ai at the place that teaches it how to go and build this for you the beauty of ai is that you as long as you get the right instructions it can do stuff while you're doing other things which is fantastic matt as always it has been awesome to have you on the show i've learned a ton i've been fascinated with the second brain concept i've yet to build mine and now i'm am going to go get codecs and get this going so thank you so much and we'll see everybody really soon on marketing against the great thank you i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and it's the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything fully integrate well i can see the client's whole history calls port tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hotspot hubspot grow it's

we can actually see what the answer engine said so we come here every single day and you can actually see what the answer engines are saying about your brand what they're saying about competitors and you could see the performance at a prompt level which will actually tell us okay i'm being mentioned a lot but are those mentions positive are they negative kind of what are the in thinking about i think that's really important because to your point yeah you to be talked a lot about but if all of that is bad stuff but it's not getting your brand any favors this is one of the most important videos on the channel everyone we're walking you through how ai search is changing everything today asia frost and bi am are gonna walk you through a transformative lesson and how to change how you're brand shows up in ai search you're in a constant daily battle with your competitors for the share of voice and the recommendations across these ai search engines and we're gonna show you how to win also it's really important to understand that there's a new set of sites and tools that are influencing the modern search engines chat gp and claude and these are sites like your blog reddit different media websites linkedin youtube your website is only doing a small part of the work and you're probably spending way more time on it than you're doing on all those other places and you have to make a change asian beer are gonna walk you through specific recommendations of how to get improvement in how you show up with these ai search engines they're gonna show you how to do this so that you can go and do it yourself and the best part is they're gonna do this all in a free tool that you can follow along with and then go use for free after the show so that you can do this for yourself just scan the qr code or click the link in the description and you can download the new ae playbook it breaks down exactly how you actually get recommended by ai alright i'm gonna hand it over to asia bi welcome to the show alright we have got an awesome episode for you today we have talked a lot about insights and philosophy behind ao but we haven't actually showed you how to do it and that is exactly what bi and i are going to do on today's episode we are going to take you through hubspot brand new ao tool just launched to the public and totally free and we are going to show you what's inside of it how we generate prompts what those prompts look like why those prompts are so important what that show was about visibility and citation share and how your competitors are doing ai search versus you and then as if that weren't cool enough we are also going to show you what to do about it all the recommendations and all the optimizations that you need to make to dominate in ai search so stick around we've got a lot to walk through in a little bit of time we think you're gonna love it barry i don't know about you i can't go a single second without someone asking me what the heck answer engine optimization is and now we're launching a tool that will tell you how visible you are in answer engines and help you improve it so give us a little bit of detail on what exactly hubspot ao is so let's walk through it like we're an actual marketer to kinda get you in the head of like what should you be doing once you get your hands on the tool to actually begin doing ae well i am an actual marketer so i'm ready there you are great and now you're actually doing marketing for dell i know you love your big pc person so mh you need to really get this use case out so let's go through the the tool together and actually get that experience first thing is you're going to actually add the different name variations and the reason we do that is because if you've actually done any this by hand you'll know that you have to go and look through every single responses he did the answer to talk about my brand so we wanna make that process really really easily now dell right they've got all these competitors hp lenovo we actually wanna see how our brand is doing against them so we're all your competitors and what we're trying to do is really just to understand relative to them right like how is our brand doing well i would say you know if i am the dell aa then i really care about hp and lenovo and ibm because those are probably the other names that answer engines are giving to potential customers so if i'm just looking at my own visibility then i'm really not getting the full picture of what's happening from my brand exactly and what you will see is there's actually some prompts where this matter of law right because they're talking about a bunch of competitors and you actually have to influence them to talk about your brand more there's some prompts where they actually don't talk about competitors at all and you probably don't need to invest as much in those prompts and we'll actually see that in the data alright let's get on cool so we've added our competitors and now the next thing is we actually have to pick our products and ic or ideal customer's profiles or the different persona that we're gonna be targeting mh the reason why this step is really important is because with ae the first step of brand visibility or we're trying to understand is how are the engine's talking about my brand but that's not a generic question it's actually quite a specific question because we want them to know when people are asking about hey i need a new computer what computer should i pick where i a new server what should i pick they talk about specific problems we know that from the data so dell for example i wanna upload all the different products that i have and then actually i wanna have what are the different types of personas or customers that are the most relevant for this product and what we're gonna do with that is we're actually gonna go and help me figure out what are the best prompts to track for each of those products of those personas to then actually simulate what they would be asking the answer engines to help you understand where to focus one of the first things that my team saw when we first started diving into aa which now feels like a long time ago yeah but you know wasn't that long ago was oh our customers are asking answer engines very different things depending on who they are where they live what their challenge was and i think with seo then you kind of early alright there are fifty to a hundred keywords that i really need to care about well there is an exponentially greater number of prompts or questions that folks are asking answer engines that you need to be tracking and figuring out all of those questions by hand as i said was like a long ar process that i would not like to repeat any time in this lifetime or any of my others and now i don't have to because at least in this lifetime hubspot ae will automatically generate those likely questions for you right i can't tell you how many these exercises we've done yeah with customers to really try to figure this out right pulling in data from a ton of different sources to really to understand where those set of prompts but what we've done here is actually dis distilled that framework and to make it really easy for a marketer to come and get started because of i'm sorry really how we understand what the answer engine's is thinking about us let's just look at these because i think they're really interesting like what i do enterprise laptop fleets struggle with premium performance needs that's a question that maps to the awareness stage the buyer's journey whereas you might have an enterprise executive asking what's the best premium laptop like i want a pc or maybe i don't know i want a pc but i want a really really good laptop these are all much more contextual than the types of keywords that we would typically think about in search exactly and this jive with what we know about how people are using answer entrants right one the answer engines know some stuff about us but people are asking way more specific questions because the answer engines are giving them specific responses yeah so really have to accommodate for that and think about it in a much more specific persona in like product specific problem specific way than just that four or five keyword kind of seo phrase that we were used to yep does your experience with ai sound a little something like this you've been prompting for twenty minutes the output is polished confident and completely useless and that's what happens when ai doesn't know anything about your business hubspot ai works with your actual customer data every interaction every signal your team has generated over time so instead of prompting and hoping you ask once and ship it check it out at hubspot dot com so you've got your prompts you've got your ic p's but then we can actually come into the tool and what you will see is that we can actually see what the answer engine said about each of these prompts we actually go and you can go to full prompt analysis we send these prompts to the answer engines every single day so getting fresh data and your visibility will probably adjust slightly every single day and even more slightly if there's a change in how in what the answer means are looking for you know in the other episode then we talked about how much volatility exists and answer engines and so i think that that is a fantastic reason a for this tool to ping the l daily and b for teams to log in to their dashboards daily yeah so we ping the l daily right and you can come in here every single day and you can actually see what the answer engines are saying about your brand what they're saying about competitors and you could see the performance at a prompt level but you can also zoom out and look at these fluctuations one click higher and actually say okay across all the prompts that i have how did i do across each of the brands and we can see here for example like there's like some fluctuations in the performance over time so if i'm this dell marketer i'm like okay you know seventy two percent sun's not bad yeah so what do we do from here right well in a vacuum that doesn't necessarily say anything but i think the big question is how are we doing it against our competitors so again we wanna make that really easy and so one of the key measurements to look at that is share a voice how are we actually doing against our competitors and so here we can see that in terms of all the problems that mentioned a brand dell had fifty two point eight percent of those mentions whereas lenovo had forty two percent and kind of the rest kind of filled it out but here we can actually see what the brand is doing against all those competitors to actually tell you okay is this seventy one percent good it better than my competitors it might words the other dimension you wanna look at it's actually sentiment analysis which will actually tell us okay i'm being mentioned a lot are those mentions positive are they negative kind of what are the in thinking about me i think that's really important because to your point yeah you could be talked a lot about but if all of that is bad stuff that's that's not doing your brand any favors yeah exactly so again i'm a dell marketer i've got you know seventy two ish percent here relative to the i'm still number one but you know lenovo was kind of breathing down our neck how do we actually go from here right so we know we've got our chrome set up the first thing we wanna do in order to begin to improve that we actually wanna dive into what's actually influencing the opinion of the answer engines to talk about meet fifty two percent of the time versus the lenovo forty two percent of the time and so the place where we often like to spend time is actually thinking about what channels are driving the opinions of the answer engines the most and here we can see that for example for dell peer content meaning not direct competitors but kind of like other players in the ecosystem are driving a lot of that content they've got about fifty five percent p r like earned media is twenty six percent and then their own website is only four percent so level question is where do we actually need to invest our time and resources to improve that as the dell marketer like do you feel good about this neutral bad yeah i think like the big eye opener here is the existing content on our website is only hitting four percent yeah we've invested all this time into our website we know the blog is coming back what's going on here right where like it's actually using blog a lot fifty five percent from peers and the seven percent for competitors that's all blog so essentially like our existing content needs to be much more oriented towards ae towards these the answer engines to drive impact we probably need to adjust our strategy to actually be more ae focused to actually drive that impact yeah which begs the question okay well how do i do that b yeah so honestly i've gotten that question like i don't know a thousand times by now at least and so we have to do something about it right and the way we've actually come about our recommendation engine is interesting because it's built on top of the citation and the prompt analysis but we also brought together the best experts in ae from the hubspot team from the ex funnel team to put together this algorithm that really helps us understand how to improve your performance on answer engines this is kind of our secret sauce in a future which i am know slightly petrified to give away but also so glad that our customers or anyone who wants to try the free trial can access yeah this took a lot of iteration right it wasn't just like let's put something out we've actually implemented all of these recommendations over the past months and measure their impact to boil down to these set of recommendation right and and now we're opening up to customers what we try to do here is make it really easy for you to understand one what should you be doing so here it's quite right that's kind of a common format that the answer just like on the blog but we're also saying this is high priority the reason why it's high priority is because perhaps the visibility on this prompts is very low or this recommendation is relevant for a lot of prompts but we're actually showing you exactly what you should be doing right so here there's like almost like a mini content brief and then we're also showing you the data behind what's driving this recommendation right so we're seeing being the most common content type for this recommendation and we're seeing all the list that influence that so we have a data backed formula to actually create these recommendations and we wanna make it really easy for you to go and take action in all of these now let's say you did right you created this list now the next question is did it matter did it work and we're actually making that really easy you can actually drop that url in here and then you will see this graph populate with did the brand visibility of this prompt go up after i took the action so it's almost like a bit of experimentation we can actually take action and measure it all right within this tool yeah this is so cool so this is actually one of the most used features we had an x funnel because was like okay what do i need to do and then the next question is oh i gotta tell my boss if it's working you not to know if we should do more so we're trying to answer both of those questions with this tool by giving you one the recommendation but to the ability to track these actions yeah that was the question that i always got okay your team is spending a heck and a lot of time on this this yeah so i love that this helps you answer that question as easily exactly if you just watched this and you were pretty mind blown by web berry was showing we have good news you can check out the tool today and not only that you can do it for free so go to hubs dot dot com slash a o free for twenty eight days we really hope you check it out i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable bs proven studies not here say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated well i can see the clients hold history calls support tickets emails and here's a task from three days ago i totally missed hotspot hubspot grow at him

we are all drowning in the ai tsunami of content everyone is creating content with ai we're gonna show you in one simple one very simple cloud code skill how you can differentiate your content from everyone else and separate yourself from the pack this is going to be the most valuable episode you've seen on content and ai and if you watch the entire show we're gonna give you the entire cloud skill at the end of this episode so make sure you stay tuned all of that i'm more in this episode of marking against the green alright i wanna kind of propose you kip that everyone is using ai tools cloud code cloud desktop all of these different tools to create content in the wrong way or at least they are starting at the wrong place and actually the power of these tools for creating content is not in the actual craft to create the content it's in the idea idea and in this short video i wanna give you one way and give her audience one skill that will actually give to you that will completely change how you use ai to create content and you will differentiate yourself from everyone else and so that's my pitch i wanna see if you were buying that you're excited to go through that i'm i'm pumped because this is the true like against the grain marketing idea that you're basically saying everybody's in one place and that you can win by being in the opposite place of everybody else but sometimes like figuring out how to be in the opposite place as tough so like maybe kick us off as to next level detail what do you mean how can we actually get out of the red ocean of creating the same stuff as everybody else is doing when buy our ask ai for a solution like yours does your business come up most companies have no idea and by the time they find out they already lost the deal to someone who did hubspot au helps you show up in those moments with the right answers buyers are looking for before the first click before the first form fill that's the moment hubspot is built for head to hubspot dot com slash au o to try that tool for free today so this is like my very simplistic way of how things work today we use ai and we say hey can you create a piece of content on let's say one of the popular ai narratives right now and so everyone starts in the same place because ai is gonna converge on the same kinda of couple of ideas and so one of the tasks i did is i give like four people a topic to create content on now i said you can prompt in way you want and then come back to me with the finished post and so they had the ability to prompt any way they want run this topic they have the ability to craft content with ai in any way they wanted and what was like really interesting is the idea like the angle the thing they chose to create content about was very similar because ai is actually proposing the same things to the same people and that's this red ocean right i think we know a good market growth principle is everyone is over here and doing this thing you should actually be over on a different angle this is a great quote from this actually rory sutherland said the opposite of a good idea can also be a good idea and he was talking about the low cost airlines and ryan everyone was at the time pitch in real comfort of an airplane like oh a great customer service and ryan were like that cheap so they were the opposite end of this spectrum this is the right point kieran which is like most people lose because they're in the middle like you could actually even win in the red ocean and the game of like everybody's creating these types of ideas you just have to do it way better than everybody else right and there are some people who are remarkable with that and do that i think what you're arguing is that it's often easier to go to the opposite end of where everybody is because you don't have to be as good at it to get the same results you just be moving yourself to the other end of the spectrum is actually where all the leverage comes from and so this is actually a more interesting way to use ai for content a lot of people think about it is craft in the content but here's an interesting way in how you can kind of help it to differentiate you so there's a clock scale that i'm gonna go through in cloud scale what it's going to do is gonna look in x it's going to look in reddit it's gonna look on the web it's gonna look on linkedin and then it's gonna take a topic that we're gonna give it it's gonna cluster all of the things people are writing in content about and because we know a lot of that is being created by ai it's kind of all conversion probably on the same topic so you open your linkedin feed your ex feed pretty similar takes everyone is kinda doing similar narrative on these topics and it's gonna look at those and it's gonna take those and it's gonna say oh i'm gonna invert them all right i'm gonna actually start at the inversion of these the opposite of these and so it's an idea deviation tool for me to say okay what's a more interesting angle that has not been covered what's the opposite of all these angles that have not been covered and that's why i call at kip opposite start so if i don't start in the red ocean of ideas i go all the way over to the blue ocean of ideas with my new club scale and so here's what's in it it's like this reframe lens so so it kinda the core mechanism talks about tension trying to figure out like what is the real debate to be had here there's a cost lens it talks about category and then contra lens and so like the who's changed the hero of the story so basically what it's trying to do is invert it in six ways and then give you an idea addition tool to start at a different place the one idea i do have here kieran is i would add one notion which is the hottest possible take is like a great place to live in the blue ocean we're like oh this is kinda consensus of how somebody feels about this thing what if i could be as sal delicious or opposite of that as possible with still some thread that it could possibly be like a viable argument or true and in that world that's a blue ocean idea because people be like whoa are you serious that's not possible and then they'll be like oh no actually now i see what you're saying you kinda got me on this one what's the most kind extreme take you can take or with having we're still having like a plausible line true okay so so what it's gonna do is give you six inversion categories so what do we mean by that we mean it's gonna look at the most popular stories and narratives and gives you six ways that you can flip them on your head now that's gonna make a lot more sense we get into the example i'm gonna actually run an example and show you the kind of six different stories that came up with that are counter opposite to what everyone else is creating content on and we'll run the example and you can look to see which ones you think are a cool and it will actually provide a recommended one it will say this is the most recommended different take on this topic so if you want what kieran has built scan qr code click the link in the description below alright we're gonna go into clock code and we will launch our terminal and then when you do slash you can see all of your different skills and so i have a scale here called single angle and so what what do we think is a let's do gp five point five was just launched let's do gp five point five for marketers it's gonna walk through the framework that you just told everybody run and it's gonna apply it to this topic right i'm gonna just say two cmos who want to make their market and team is more native so it's off doing the work and so sometimes it will ask you to clarify the topic and say that this isn't a good topic and give that some like like a topic that's great and then it just goes was off and dust stuff now you know the funny thing about i like i'm like i should start another agent do so i like that's what i do all the time that's why i have all these different cloud code complexity computer man that's it's like have different things doing different different the same yeah it's like oh my i haven't got one agent doing something i should actually spin up a whole team here so it's starting to pull pullback and stuff so it's pulled back a summary and so what it's done is it's gonna fund all of the kind of gp five point five posts around like is this good for market tiers so here's what we've done we've scour the web x reddit the open web for all of the content that's being created over the last twenty four to forty eight hours on gp t five point five we found all of the things that people are creating content on so in this case they're creating a lot of content on the productivity savings so gp five point five can run autonomously for up to twenty hours there's a huge increase in benchmarks of gp five point five ability to automate work to run autonomously and that has been a big talking point and so the productivity is like what people are focused on the benchmarks or what upgrades or people are focused on and what our agent is doing and it's coming back and saying okay here's a bunch of different ways that you could think about this topic that no one else is and it's categorized into these six categories and then it's basically saying the one that's like most interesting in is if you don't make your marketing team ai native your ceo will take ai out of your hands and gp five point five is the release that starts that clock and so the reason it's saying that is because the hidden cost here is you will lose c suite authority over ai itself so the budget moves to it and you become the person who uses ai not the person who decides about it and then the proof it's saying is only fifteen percent of ceos think their cmo is ai savvy that is painful pretty painful cmo involvement in all decisions has fallen see how good this supposed to be really good dude seventy percent to fifty five percent we should just do this episode like right now this you do this this is an episode do i think more than half of martin's ai budgets are now owned by it and it's saying that gp five point five is now gonna be an infrastructure layer to the company and so all of that is going to move to a different department and i think that that is the angle to use and i'll just show you one more thing and then i'll kick off the screen it builds me an entire brief of that episode right it gives me different hook like this it gives me the pro arguments counter arguments and then it gives me all of these cool stats do and so it gives me a brief then it gives me a story because you integrate stories into your content it works really well and so it gives me a story that can actually speak to why this may happen and then it gives me a bunch of closing lines and so why is this valuable it's not writing the content for you it's idea idea yeah that's what you're that's where the power is it's the idea you should write the content right like you write the content but the idea idea look how good this is look look at how how rich or a brief this is and it's things that people are not right about the hidden gems well first of all it's the hidden gems and one of things i love about it karen is that like all of our ideas come from like our own experiences and ai has all of our experiences together so it's gonna find things that we don't yet know about and it's gonna bring those to the tables that we can actually one learn and think about that idea in a different way and then i get to tell different stories which is like kinda anti the ai narrative that just gonna like produce slap and do all this i think you're making the key point that it's about the idea deviation versus the creation and ai is actually better at idea radiation than even it is at creation yeah and it's an incredible i think one of the core strengths of the scale is that it basically builds a cluster of what is the common narrative first and then it will do the inverse of that right so that's the thing to really take away from the skill it doesn't just go and start to do research it will first of all do research and bill like here's the current narrative actually here's all of the things that current narrative misses for your audience and then it clusters them into those categories and then says this is actually the best one here's an entire brief and then you create content right and so that way you have a team of researchers really trying to figure out how you can differentiate things you actually talk about here's my hot take here is the ai is gonna make creation and s way easier and so what you're gonna have is that red ocean is gonna get busier and fuller there's to be more people playing in creating more stuff around the obvious ideas and all the magic is gonna be in these blue ocean ideas that are fundamentally different and are getting covered less and you can actually like stand out in a remark away and you've built a a pretty awesome system i'm excited to do the episode you just showed i'm excited to use this tool for a couple of their episodes could be awesome i'm gonna send this you and we'll do the gp five point five next week yeah you can follow along and look at that episode and then know that we go all the idea for that episode from this skill and then see if you think it's a good topic i think it will be a good topic i i thanks so you that'll be fun this has been great kieran your claude coding never cease to amaze me so if you'd want what kieran has built scan at qr code click the link in the description below and thanks everybody thanks for watching another episode see you real soon on marketing great i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals answer the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated well i can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hubspot grow at

imagine if your business could rank number one on google for every topic every keyword you cared about that's what we're talking about on today's show in a world of ai content everywhere there's a bunch of lock out there and it's flooding the internet but i'm gonna help you break through that slot and show you how to rank for every single keyword you care about by following a six step framework to really valuable content in fact i'm am gonna go and show you how somebody who's already ranking in google barely completes this framework and you could go out there and beat them right now better yet i'm not just gonna show you a framework i'm gonna give you a free tool that you can use to create any of your content to make sure that you know it's actually following this advice and so it can start ranking and getting me more traffic and more customers right away this is gonna be one of the most valuable shows we have ever done let's get into it if you're marketing you're always trying to figure out how do i get traffic and attention from google however now that ai is onto the scene there's a bunch of s content that's being created and google's doing a lot to try to deal with that i recently came across this awesome post and this post was from barry who attended an event that google hosted and at that event was danny sullivan and some other kind of seo experts and folks from google and they had a really cool framing the framing of this was how do you have commodity versus non commodity content what does it look like in a world where ai can generate everything and anything to actually create unique valuable content versus ai s that nobody cares about stop me if you've heard this before your support team opens the q monday morning two hundred tickets before the first sip coffee they already know what's in there password resets order updates the same questions over and over what if that part of the job handled itself hubspot customer agent resolves those repeat tickets using your actual crm data and knowledge base your team can focus on the conversations that actually need them and your customers can get the answers they need faster check out hubspot dot com to learn much more about hubspot custom well you so to break this down a little bit more commodity you know it's a proxy for that it's it's easy it's ubiquitous anybody can do it and it's not that valuable non commodity content is content that's actually got some unique aspects around it and danny sullivan posted this slide and we had chris long involved there was a bunch of really awesome folks within the seo industry and what i've done is broken down the six dimensions summarizing the commodity versus non commodity content so as you're working on your content strategy you can actually understand what that looks like and then we'll look at some content examples and we'll grade them in this grader i've i've built and stick around to the end where i will give you the link to this greater and you can go grade true content for free danny sullivan had i think a really great slide what really makes content non comm is only you could have written it der shah at hubspot and brian hall and hubspot founders had always had a great test if you were writing something or writing a positioning statement for a product they'd be like could a yoga studio say that could anybody say that could any random business say what you're saying because if so then it's commodity and it's not unique to who you are and so what we're talking about today is content that only you could create and so i wanted to give you kind of a breakdown from danny of commodity versus non commodity content commodity content content that is just kind of commodity content factual information not original in any way widely available and offers no unique value no perspective and requires no expertise i think that last one is a big point if you're out there doing marketing on behalf of a company your company has to have unique expertise out in the world now an automatic content your original voice that is the thing that only you can provide it's your particular take grounded in your firsthand experience expert takes proprietary data and an authentic voice i think it's a key distinction here it's not just what you're saying it's how you're saying it and how you're making it resonate with the unique voice that you or your company has and if you want the site and the tool and everything we're talking about today you wanna scan that qr code or click the link in that description below so right now we're are gonna walk through six types of content so that you can understand how to make sure you're not creating commodity content that nobody's interested in and more importantly commodity content is not gonna rank you in google not gonna rank you an it's not gonna actually help you get failed and discovered online non comm unique original content it's what's gonna get you traffic from google get you to rank in chat gp per complexity etcetera and so here are the six checkpoints you can use to make sure that you're actually getting it right do you have proprietary evidence firsthand experience is it specific versus general do you have a clear point of view could chat gp write this without any help from you if so bad side and information gave does the reader learns something that's not in the top three results of google is this new and important information to the reader and i wanna break down each of these for you and kinda give you some examples so if you're looking at proprietary evidence here's i think a great back and forth example so a few years ago i think if you were like a running store which is what this example is you might have had an article about like the top ten things to consider with buying running shoes few years ago that was hard information to find then ai came on the scene and now it's very easy information to get from any ai but now what does it look like today to do this why this customer shoes collapse after four hundred miles a wear pattern analysis jake brought his brooks ghost fifteen's in at four hundred two miles lateral foam on the right heel was compressed four millimeter deeper than the left a signature of his four foot strike photos below oh my gosh there's so much in there photos deep data deep specificity that is not commodity content chat gp can't make up jake and the story about his exact running form and how that's going to actually impact how his shoes wear so what's interesting instead of shows basic general generic traits of the shoes it's name specific shoe specific specific mileage specific measurement and only a photo that that store could take great because that photo is unique to jake and his perspective this i hope is a really clear distinction of what it really means to have proprietary evidence only you could have done this thing and if you're looking at building your content you need to make sure you've got this proprietary habits the next thing firsthand experience first area hand experience i did i saw i built not that the experts recommended okay so again pre ai you would had an article like seven tips for first time home builders now you would have something like why we waved the inspection and save fifteen thousand dollars a look inside the sewer line and it's amazing again the level of specificity but again this is a firsthand experience they're telling that i personally crawled inside this sewer line and has a story in a video again that only this person writing this could have shared and if you are being about your favorite podcast your favorite tiktok or youtuber these are the type of things that make you love them right the way that they tell their stories in these unique circumstances if you wanna be successful online you need to be able to do the exact same thing okay specificity we really wanna dive into name names exact numbers real dates specific places and so we've got an example here of like a kitchen store right so twenty twenty four kitchen trends you need to see would have been the old way and i don't know i probably read six of these articles when i was thinking about kitchens every the years now the the non commodity version is marble versus grape juice why refused to install stone for a family of five oh d hendrix have three children under seven a i drip grape juice and turmeric onto cal viola and taj court sites of my shop on march fourteenth here are the twenty four hour stay in photos so they've got again specific details on the family the types of stone that specific tests they run and i think this is a good call if you wanna move this on the right dimension for every adjective asked could i replace that with a number name or date so fast eleven seconds popular four thousand two hundred orders last month recent march fourteenth you see the level of detail and specificity that is now required to really resonate online and drive original non comm content i'm giving you the blueprint of exactly what you need to do if you follow these steps you will have the most unique and compelling content in your market in your industry and you're gonna get rewarded on social on search across organic discovery for doing this work k point of view you gotta believe something the world is done with people who are unwilling to take a stand and so let's go back to the kitchen example marble or quartz which one is right for you how many which one is right for you articles have you seen maybe over the last decade those are done those are dead now i won't install marble in a house with kids here's my line and it's a sharp rule willing to lose the job the author hasn't has drawn a line if you have three kids under ten i will walk away from a marble countertop job i've done too many etch surfaces for families who want the look courts site or nothing so what he's really saying is i will not sell you marble if you have kids in your house that's a point of view that is drawing a very hard and distinct line and that is how you actually get people's attention to bring somebody in you need to alienate other people you cannot sit in the middle we don't live in a world where sitting in the middle as possible anymore and so i i think this is a great tip end every section with a sentence that starts i believe or i won't where i disagree with if you can't then you don't really have a strong point of view in the content you're creating okay the l we gotta make sure that chat gp or claude couldn't write this just based on their training data so go back to the running shoe example the the chat g example would be how to choose the right running shoe for your foot type chat gb could tell you literally everything about this it's got it it's training corpus there's tons of data out there now what could check gp not to we x raid forty seven customers feet here's what the arch type shoes chart gets wrong oh so here's this piece of common information and we're gonna challenge it and we're not just gonna challenge it which is great point of view and specificity but we're gonna do it with forty seven customer x rays chat doesn't have those forty seven customer x rays goes back to that proprietary specific information chat gp cannot compete with this ai only generate content cannot compete with this and this is the type of content that is going to win and by the way even when you do this you can just ask chat chip to cloud could you have written this what information here is unique and not in your training set of data that would be really really valuable and by the way i'm gonna give you not just the greater i talked about i'm gonna give you this this entire link to this site that breaks stay on this entire framework so that you can go step by step as you're applying it to your marketing okay the last part of the framework information game do people actually take something away do they learn something and again the old pre ai way would be how to win a bidding war in twenty twenty six make your best offer offer up upfront write a personal letter to the seller be flexible on closing dates generic vague chat g could have written it now we ran forty one offers in twenty twenty five the personal letter trick lost more often than it won across forty one by side offers we represented in twenty twenty five personal letters were attached to nineteen except rate with the letters thirty one percent without fifty four percent so this is a real data that contradicts conventional wisdom the only the person who is writing this could have gotten and that is really new and added information to the reader they can't just go with search on chat or google they will get this how with the bidding war they'll get the list of tactics what they won't get is the counter insights that are going against the grain to actually understand what you should do and so i think this is a good tip before publishing google your own headline read the top the results if you cannot circle three facts in your piece that aren't already in those three your information gain is zero meaning you need to have new things in what you're about to publish that are not at all in those first three results on google and if you do that you know you're gonna have a large information game people are gonna get value from what you're doing and it's going to be really really successful so i gave you these examples i gave them across a running store real estate and interior design they work for anybody okay and here are some clear examples of that we went through around why they work and how they work now was even better is i actually build a greater for your blog post lady page newsletter whatever content and you will get a score from one to a hundred based on this framework let's try this life since we were talking to our countertops i put in compare countertops i skipped the ai overview and i went straight to the top link and this top link is for this company great lakes granite and marble and they've got a pretty comprehensive article about all the different types of countertops and tons of detail and so what i wanna do so i wanna use this as a really good example of what i think is likely mostly not commodity content but i do think it lacks some point of view and this is maybe a little too informational so let's put it into our greater and see what happens so i thought this being like the top rank in google was gonna get a pretty high grade i was wrong got a nine out of a hundred generic countertop comparison guide with no proprietary data first firsthand experience or original perspective this is a fantastic example if you are out there and you're running a countertop business you could literally go un seat the number one ranking in google search for countertop comparison material comparisons just following this framework and building really detailed firsthand non commodity type of content this is a pure commodity type of of of content which i think is interesting so it's saying does is very low proprietary evidence first aid experience it has some point of view and it has a little bit of information game five directions to move right so here are the recommendations that we would go and give this company pull two to three name customer projects from their own install history includes lab name household type the material they chose and why your team steered them differently that's a great piece of advice add the what we see in our shop let's it's again firsthand personal and depth permission take a stance in the intro instead of presenting every material type is equal but open with something like for eighty percent of detroit area homeowners we recommend courts or courts site get point of view getting that in there replace the zillow and consumer report citations with your own market data your own customer data and for the courts site section specifically document a real fantasy brown cores site install you have photos yeah one in the article already and then what i love about the greater this greater is that gives you phrases to kill a cascade of dream decorative filler the surface will bear witness to the stories of countless meals conversations memories you unfold generic emotional appeal with zero asbestos specificity interchangeable with any countertop brand's coffee again i find this framework to be rock solid because it brings you back to the hard questions about the writing you're doing the information you're sharing and it gets all the fluff and all of the generic ai could copy this in five minutes content and get you on a path to real disruptive distinguish indistinguishable content so we wanna stop the ai swap and we wanna use this framework you can scan the qr code or click a link in the description below to this grader and more importantly to this entire website that has the full framework as well as the grader on it you can then use that to build your own content grade your own content and i think what you will see is as you do this at a more programmatic basis you will get a massive amount of change to the way that you appeal to ai search engines traditional google search and to humans because of the level of quality specificity and uniqueness of your content content has changed dramatically over the last several years and i i've have given you in about twenty minutes the simplest and most direct framework possible to win in the new world so let's stop the commodity content let's move forward with the unique valuable content and let's go out and win customers win traffic thanks everyone we'll see you real soon on the next episode of marketing against screen i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and to the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully into well i can see the client's whole history calls of support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hotspot spot grow better

a single developer to spend a hundred and fifty thousand dollars on tokens so we're basically just letting everybody take every idea whether it's good or crazy and just do it and that last year said they burn with billion tokens wins in a single month you have to answer a series of questions to really connect the thing you're building to the outcome i say the most dangerous person in a company today is the person who has token max and bad at their craft there was a single developer who spend a hundred and fifty thousand dollars on tokens and what have i told you that company didn't really know what the outcome of that spend was welcome to the era of tok maxim we are going to explain what it is why you should care about it and is this something you should think about for your team alright kip tok max i think you are like definitely a big culprit of tok and perplexed speaking i'm the tok max we're not look max maxing is a thing right now everybody's maxing everything you've got like who's this like viral dude for look you've got all these different maxing and maxing has come to ai and now it's become cool to spend as much money as humanly possible on ai tokens and credits and i was out in san francisco for little while karen and literally everybody i talked to us like i want my team spending more money more money more money like all the tokens all the maxing as much as you could possibly go is that a good thing is that a bad thing how the hell should people actually like think about it right i think one of the quotes that kinda kick this all off is the founder of nvidia jensen was on the all in podcast and he said he would be kinda concerned if his average developer was not spending at least two hundred and fifty thousand dollars on token how much did you spend in tokens and that person said five thousand dollars i will go ape something else yeah so for people listening what that means is he wants to pay a developer in like base salary and then he kinda wants to have another two hundred and fifty thousand dollars that he expands in that developer which is through token usage right like just burns as main tokens as you can use these ai models and meta last year said they burn through a billion tokens in a single month is that good bad we don't know the average enterprise they're burning through thirteen times more tokens this year than they were last year and the question is kip i think the question that most people have you're a cmo if you're whoever it may be even the employee should i be burning this many tokens is it just like bonus many tokens as you can and go ham or is there something else more thoughtful that companies and teams and execs should be doing all the businesses i talked to that are what they're really struggling with karen is like i hear that i should be spending all these money on this tokens but like i also have to run a business to know what my costs are gonna be and like how do i know what somebody's gonna spend it's super unpredictable based on what they're doing ai token spend is really surgeon and this is what what you're saying is like well there's just a lot of people who are now building things we're are now creating things who are now using ai for all parts of their work and that's represented in this here from rant data this article came come out and it basically talked a lot about why so many ai pilots that's the companies were failing but i think the disconnect people are probably trying to figure out is like it does ai usage and token usage correlate to outcomes or are those two things disconnected from each other and i think at the moment there's a lot of questions being athlete does it really equate to revenue there was a great host from uber i think it was a uber ceo who talked about the fact that they had burned through their entire twenty twenty six budget already for ai and and every company is burning through the budget they're not the only one most people i talked to you burning through the budget in the first half of the year karen yeah because these models are getting more sophisticated they're burning through more tokens opus four point seven is a pretty hungry model for most people they've access to all of the models right you get access to cloud you have cloud seats you get access to all the models you can pick whatever model you want people who are sitting in seats most of you all are probably listen and most people at working companies they're not thinking i shouldn't use this model to that model model because of tokens are just like i'll just use the best model everyone wants the best model we just dropped a free resource that tells you if your team's ai spend is actually driving results if you're investing in ai but can explain what changed in your business because of it this is exactly what you need it has two sections eight items and a scoring framework that maps your ai usage to real business outcome get it right now scan the qr code or click the link of the description below and so yam our ceo had this great linkedin post where she said i come max better than token max maybe talk through that what is an example of me optimizing for outcome max outcome max is like am i getting better results and it's my company growing more and so what's happening right now in silicon valley kieran is that you've got all this tok maxing largely is talked about around software and developers and then measure these software developers basically on pull requests from github and like how much code are they changing and improving and those code changes are a proxy for outcomes but they're not really the direct outcomes and outcome max is like no no i am a sales rep and i have an agent for prospecting and i get twice as many deals this month like that's awesome like that's outcome that's that's exactly what you want and because i get twice as many deals i get twice as much revenue from those deals hopefully right though i will say i kinda like tok maxing like the reason for is that one outcome you do have to maximize is learning and how quickly you can learn and i'd argue that all these tokens right now are subsidize by venture capitalists and late stage investors and because of that it's like it it is way cheaper to learn than it possibly will be in the future i think a lot of people think those costs are gonna come down i don't know if that's actually true or not we let's let's take go to market right and so we there's go to market functions teams and people and so why i'm saying that is if i say well we want to have a core outcome for sales and we look across the sales department and we say the more ai usage or tokens that the sales department is using the better their p is like productivity per rep they're making much more money they're closing more deals so that is an example where you can correlate ai usage to overarching functional result support would be ticket deflect deflation it gets harder in marketing actually and that's the one thing we might wanna touch on is like the outcomes are more nuanced in marketing in sales there's like a real binary outcome you close a deal you did not close a deal in customer support you can look at the number of tickets you close and then you can look at the kind of quality score of how people feel about your support function did they have a good experience that did not have a good experience the challenge is when you get into like the individual so to your point is like oh alright let's just maximize for learning we wanna burn a bunch of tokens tokens will never be as cheap as they are now this is a great time to learn because are being subsidized by all of the vcs all of these companies are running negative margins and at some point they'll have to improve those margins and the cost of a token will go up you will have to be more deliberate about how you use the ai assistance but i say the most dangerous person in a company today is the person who is like token max and bad at their aircraft so as you were talking like i came up with two things one is i think there's two things you could do to create an environment in which token maxing and outcome maxing are kinda of the same thing and the first thing that i think you would do kieran is that over the last ten years i would say one of the biggest epidemics in business has been measuring and reporting on activity instead of outcomes like i do these things whether those things are actually having an impact or not and so the first thing that you have to do in like a token maxing world i think is set up your team to have very strict outcome targets and to have like kind of a operating model we're we use like we're using like a sprint system and everything to basically do discrete tasks to try to achieve those outcomes and really report against those and i think if you do that that's that's one thing and the other thing as it doesn't make a lot of sense to like spend all these tokens to rebuild a web page to change the color of a button if i'm gonna build a completely different style product page and do something radically different and the fact that i can do that faster and cheaper and i can actually run a test to see if that's going to get me a much better outcome and i think that's a good thing what do you agree with these or not yeah so i think you're saying so like if you're a cmo for example the best way to do this is to have a quarterly set of projects and comes you wanna drive from ai usage and so you're saying hey like one of the things we wanna do is we wanna use ai across the content team and then we're gonna look at the quality and speed to create content or the really thing we wanna do is like integrate ai across the social media team to reduce our agency spend and actually improve our engagement of social media so like there's some sort of outcome you have to derive and say well now i can say based upon this ai usage we're actually seeing like real outcomes there should be some way to correlate that at some point you're gonna have to say what model should i use and i think that's the hard part for folks is like this is a simplistic task i should use a really cheap model i think companies will start to integrate open source models and fine tune them for their own companies and then you'll actually have tasks map to different models but at the moment the user is being asked to decide the model and i would say that ninety nine percent of all people working in companies do not think about that at all so what's really happened is everyone really kinda fucking hates their job they wish they could just like bill bullshit and ai allows me to bill shit and so now i used to have to go and do this born thing where i changed the color of the button i can use ai to do it in a much more creative way or rebuild the entire page so everything looks like an ai problem to solve here's my my explanation of the problem and it oh long time ago i read tina facebook boss pants and she has like a section there in the middle where it talks about lord michaels who is run saturday live for a long long time and he talks about his whole job is to basically like edit creative people and stop them from getting in their own way and like kinda suppress some of that craziness and kind of what's happening with tok because we're basically just letting everybody take every idea that's whether it's good or crazy and just do it and what you actually need is like a management structure and a team structure to put a little bit of constraints to get some of the like really dumb shit talking maxing out of the way because there's is just too much creativity too much decision making and too much just like also just like ad of like oh well i can build this thing now so i'm just gonna go and just spend thirty minutes building this thing whether i should or not we could get people a really simplistic formula here which is like ai by outcome equals strategy and so what do we mean by that we mean that if you have a team using ai and they cannot have a single sentence of what the outcome of that ai usage is you don't actually have a strategy you have ai token max you just have usage for the sake usage and maybe you would debate that that's learning and they're just gonna learn but an example would be right the content team are using an ai and so we would say okay you have all access to cloud or chat or gemini what is like one simplistic outcome this month and they would say oh on the blog we're going to try to reduce the time it takes to create a blog post today it takes like five hours and then we wanna get that down to like an hour but because you actually have a single sentence that explains the outcome now you have a strategy now you have ai usage that's going to like shorten the time to produce content if you don't have ai by outcome eco strategy and you're missing that single sentence you have token maxim you do not have outcome max and that i think is a good force function for people who are even using the models themselves what is like one thing that i'm am gonna do this week that i'll get better at so at my ai usage aside from all of the things we're kinda doing in in in hotspot hubspot my ai usage i outside a hubspot is to build a second brain and i could do it your tutorial at some point but at least i know what my outcome is because if i have built the second brain it's going to drastically reduce the time it takes me to get back to people and actually drastically improve the strategic decisions i make of want to spend my time on so there's like ai by outcomes come equals as a clear strategy for me right it's strategically important to me i really like that framework i think everybody watching a shit today should take advantage of it the one clarifying thing i would say that you just gave in your example that i really liked it's like you have to answer a couple of a series of questions to really connect the thing you're building to the outcome oh i'm gonna i wanna build a second brain i wanna build a second brain because it's gonna save me time that it's gonna and allow me to respond faster because i can respond faster i'm going to be able to ship decisions faster and get results faster and that's the outcome i'm getting right i think sometimes people get stuck on like hey i just wanna build this thing without fully connecting it to the outcome that they're going to get from it existing and also like kieran strategies is also a set of repeatable actions and so much ai stuff is just like one off disposable shit like the other filter i would give is like i'm about to build this thing that i think it'd be get a good outcome am i gonna use it more than once yeah yeah yeah and if i'm gonna use it more than once like oh that's probably interesting if this is really like a completely disposable thing and it's gonna take me more than a couple minutes like i probably shouldn't do it outcomes are what makes you money and is how you get rich and you don't want to just do one side of it because you're just making another company right and i think that is the part that we would leave you with is like the ai by outcome equals strategy and strategy is the part that you should be good at you are gonna be good at and hold the people you work with to equally be good at it so that you're spending your money wisely and for things that are actually grow your business i love those takeaways here think you've nailed the clothes there please it like please hit subscribe and we'll see you very soon on marketing against the screen i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and to the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrate whoa i can see the clients whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hubspot grow better everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna pull up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really 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we just get done with an episode with sam sam is the founder of the hustle founder of the startup up community hampton and one half of my first million and even he someone who spends all of this time with startup founders is a little overwhelmed by ai and one core part of ai how do i get found in chat chip tea and gemini in fact sam was wondering is this even something i should care about by the end of this episode he wanted to sprint out the door he had a whole notebook of all of these things he wanted his marketing team to do to make sure the hampton was much more visible in gemini and chat to team and the reason is is because that's where customers are going that's where they're asking questions about your products and your services and this is what this episode is all about let's get into this episode of marketing against a green i'm completely overwhelmed with ai hampton that's what everyone talks about is what they're doing with x y and z tool and i can't keep up with it but i do know that seo is one of the ways that we've built our companies and it's how hubspot built their company but i hear about au and i don't know where to start and i'm frankly overwhelmed because i do see customers coming in from chat on my hubspot dashboard and on google analytics but i have no idea why we are coming up and i wanna come up more hampton it's like this incredible network of founders and i think ai is kinda like a drug for finder because you can just put your builder hat on and go crazy build in anything you want but do they spend a lot of time obsessed in the butt like why i appear in catch or why does the ai not give answers about my product or services or they're not yet thinking about that no it's like we have a channel called them i'm pulling up called them ai and one of the biggest things that people are talking about is how google's changing i've just like looked up the word ae e o and it's been mentioned fifty two times in the last ninety days wow so yeah it's very very popular google's got disrupted i would say google's blue lengths if yes disrupted actually like that's one interesting thing about google is like they're a ben manufacturer i actually wish i had thought about this logically about two years ago because i would've have put more money in google stock their links were disrupted and they were a ben manufacturer from their own links being disrupted they're making tons more money are you guys able to say has hubspot search traffic gone down oh yeah we lost a hundred and forty million visits in a year what percent is that eighty no it's not eighty percent was in it was like seventy wasn't it yeah okay i you're gonna say it's not eighty and then you're were gonna go down to like thirty seems like little that's it's eighty percent it was eighty percent on the blog yeah a blog traffic dropped eight percent that you're that you're totally on you you guys need a more than anyone dude we have been there's a lot of interesting things that we learned through that process but it turns out if you just switch your attention to better quality and what better conversions and you can kinda supplement this stuff what's been interesting is like i'm a huge nerd so i've been using it's one of these words that i never pronounce but i spell h a reps yeah reps i use that religiously and now i'm like i need the tool that does this for ai alright so that's what we're gonna show you today so this is fantastic that that's the basically of the perfect setup i think barry you've built hubspot aa i think you have basically done some work for sam and put hampton through the aa tool and maybe let's walk through what that looks like and get some initial feedback from sam about his take on if this is interesting to him so sam what we did was we actually set up a portal for you about a week and a half ago and we did some prompt research we actually asked a couple hampton members about how they actually think about h and like what they would search so you wanted to actually show you like what does the ai think about you and how like we'd actually users experience this and i can be transparent here i sold my company to hubspot and i get paid by hubspot to host a podcast but my whole business which you'll see is built on hubspot and so i wanna know is this on the dashboard that anyone can click on we probably have to associate with your account but we can get this set up for you did anybody who's on on a marketing hub pro enterprise has access to this tool or you can buy it stand alone for fifty bucks sick wow okay the first thing we did was we added a bunch of prompts so what are the best founder communities for agency owner is trying to scale past ten million dollars where are the best peer groups for founders prepping to start a second company what communities help founders stay accountable to growth and performance goals we've got a bunch in here but that's really the first steps so do i have to enter those yeah so you can enter these yourself you can click here to add prompts manually you can associate them with different types of founders whether you're looking for like saas founders or whether you're looking for agency founders you got kind of different ic and you can also if you've got different offerings right whether it's like core whether it's like chapter whether it's the overall network you can actually set this up based on different products and services just to real clear because this was as a i question that up a lot the system and created this first set or prompts the system will suggest all these prompts for you and if you work with hubspot already we actually know what your products are we know your ideal customers are so all this happens within a couple of clicks wow we just happen to set it up for you if you were going through it you would have seen this list of prompts you would have read through them and say yeah i want to track this one no i don't wanna track this one okay cool yeah so you can upload these prompts yourself you can add individual prompts or you can also generate with ai so here you can actually say okay what is my ic so let's say b startup up founders in the us what's the product so let's say core let's say we want kind of five prompts and then we can actually pick a level of intent so i think for you most founders probably don't know about peer groups it's like a new thing for many of they don't they like no kinda they know maybe a community so let's call it awareness change and then we'll go and generate the prompts so these actually be where would be pretty specific to your customer base kind of what stage there are if you've got a lot of folks already educated you're probably gonna focus more down funnel on like consideration or decision or evaluation so how do we founder our peer communities impact the b2c start growth right so it's like kind of roi related questions what causes early stage founders to feel isolated while scaling i think that's like a question that i had a lot like okay this is not a good feeling you know when you're growing your company really fast when i as a founder and it could be questions related to that so for example if you were saying like i'm running my company and i'm lonely and if gp would say like well have you ever thought about using a peer group there's a bunch of really interesting one slight exactly so you could do that and then once we actually go and add these we'll go and run this prompt against chat against per complexity against gemini so you could actually see the answer in line here and you can actually see which ones you appear in the response so we can see here we appeared in one third of the answers and we're running these every single day every single day we're sending these prompts to the answer engines so here what is the best founder community for agency owners trying to scale past ten million dollars so in this run we were not chen but we can go back to the previous one brand mentioned this run so yesterday they mentioned you today they did and that's because of the way they answer engines behavior what you can see here they're actually ranking use so the chat the best one agency or owners club is the first one agency owner network and then hampton here's rate number four wow this is awesome does it give you search volume so that's a great question one of the most popular questions search volume doesn't actually work in ae because a prompt on chat is like twenty three twenty four words so there isn't actually volume because it's almost always like a very specific yeah prompt with all the context so it's actually much more about aiming for the long tail than it is actually aiming for high volume in the same way that you did in seo so in order to optimize for search i would just they say write good content and get links and whatever good content means that's a little bit of a black box they just say valuable whatever the hell that that can mean at any given quarter but what do i have to do in order to rank for these like what's hud the fuck gonna tell me yeah so what we do here is we're actually analyzing the citations so select if we go back to the prompts you can actually see that this is the answer and when you look at the answer there's actually a bunch of links in here and these links are called the citations and these citations are how chat actually comes up with its response so each answer has you know and you anywhere from like three to fifteen sometimes links right we can see them spread all throughout the answer sometimes are listed at the bottom and so what we do is we're actually analyzing all the different sources that the answer engines used to come up with an answer and so here we can see what are the different channels that actually influence the answers and we can see that about twenty seven percent came from earned media so like p fifty eight percent came from peers so for example other players that aren't direct competitors in your ecosystem that talked about founder communities five percent came from competitors about six and a half percent came from u so it gives us a map of all the different sources that are influencing the answer engines visibility of your brand this is crazy okay and then you can go a click deeper and say okay i know i probably will now need to invest in p because about twenty eight percent twenty seven point eight percent earned media fifty eight point eight percent is coming from peers that's actually an area that i can influence why because i can reach out to those folks to talk about me or but if you actually look at what are the pieces of content that are influencing it what content types are we seeing so we're seeing that twenty percent is actually just like general blog posts we're seeing that how two guides so right this makes a lot of sense for founders i think you guys have done different guides as well as like twelve percent the home homepage is eleven percent list are twenty percent product pages of seventeen percent this gives you essentially a content strategy roadmap of what content to create but then also like where do you need to spread this content because you essentially need to go and create consensus not just on your own blog you have to go and actually the answer and they're looking across many different sources the trying consensus what does the peer mean so pierre is a product or service company that is not a direct competitor could that be like if kip or karen has like a personal blog and they're like happens interesting here's what what the engines are doing is they're trying to get a consensus of like what are actually the best options relative to this question and so they're they wanna go find across a diverse set of sources what seems to be the consensus winner related to this topic was badass and then is u social you you see it social exactly so you see is social primarily focused here on reddit and youtube so those are the one that we're seeing the most and nothing about linkedin or meta yeah and linkedin is the third meta we're not seeing yet meta and reddit twitter are not showing up wow okay great could you talk about the differences between chat between and gemini because like youtube is pretty big for google's ai mode they're actually different so if you're trying to be visible in chat or trying to be visible and google ai mode it's quite different in terms of what they look for right so it's interesting a lot of this depends on kind of the data deals that these engines signed with different partners so google actually has a very big ecosystem youtube is within ecosystem and they actually wanna send you to youtube right because it keeps you within you google it keeps you actually like within their content ecosystem and so youtube is very big and also has a lot of great content on chat we're seeing them push red right so that ends up like they have a data deal with reddit they're sending folks a lot reddit google does this as well but google also has youtube youtube is appearing both but just way more google because they're kind of incentivized to keep you within their ecosystem we're seeing linkedin appear in both mostly like articles that you can post on linkedin rather than like posts we haven't seen post appear nearly as much do you guys have like a button i can click and you'll just go and solve these problems for me if you're excited to sam was in this episode to get going with a you can go to hubspot dot com slash au and try the same product for free for twenty eight days or buy it for fifty dollars a month go check it out love to hear what you think drop a comment below you can click the link in the description below for the tool it'll take you right to hubspot this is the way recommendations come in and the way we actually got to these recommendations is before we got acquired hubspot was exponent customer and not just hubspot many other big like growth marketing teams and we wrote recommendations for them we did this over and over again to really figured out what's working and we experimented alongside them so here we actually have recommendations and we're vetting these with experts with our customer we're spending a lot of time figuring out what these recommendations are and how to create them in a way that has the most impact so if you look at these recommendations this one for example list create a list on invite only founder peer groups to capture high intent searches for saas scaling pricing exit decisions and such and here we actually give you like a mini content brief where we're actually doing kind of the keyword research right we're pinging some of our keyword data providers what are the core keywords that we should have in this article so you can give this to a writer they can write and you know we'll be adding different tools to help you actually do that like if i put that into claude would i be punished for using an ai article about this so a reps actually has a ton of information about this hubspot as well most content today starts being generated with ai but you wanna make sure that there's like a ton of research that is pushed into it with like new facts and things like that and also probably have editors go it so it's more like ai assisted rather than like totally totally totally ai like ai written human edited yeah yeah the current ai search landscape feels like the kinda seo landscape of ten years ago there was this cool story in reddit where this guy have like ten x his visibility through just mass list he had wanted to get like a hundred times more testicles all over the web that and every kinda top ten had his in the top ten and he just saw this huge increase in visibility and church d part of that is because like google kinda figured figure this that with page authority like in google's ai mode they can like look at what's indexed and say well this was in the top ten it's an authority side given more credibility but chat doesn't really have this is an authoritative side it kinda just looks at mass citation and then who it has like partnerships with deals with yeah and i think the other factor is that in in ai search in general relevancy for now matters more than authority meaning you're providing a piece of content that is answering the question and has content that as directly answering the question and there's more relevant than to the prompt it's gonna use that over like a high authority site and that's why you're seeing these list and in like small players actually smb in startups having a much bigger opportunity than that may have in the seo world can you help me decide how important this is to me so like hampton where i i don't know twenty or twenty five employees right now our main channel of growth is basically me being a personality and then also followed by we just started doing paid ads and that's been really good search has not been something that we've paid too much attention to because with a small business you have to really focus in my opinion on only one or two growth channels at one time and then you can band for hubspot i i i assume it search early on and then now after twenty five years or twenty years they're like let's do podcast podcasts let's do youtube let's do all these other things and it's very very effective we made a decision that search optimization if that's not the highest priority because i just went to like search console i'm like how many people would potentially search this word and it was like this might be less impactful than the other stuff now because this doesn't have visibility on the search volume would you say that it's the same as using google console and then like is it like plus or minus some percentage where it's like well google search says that you're gonna get like ten thousand people to your website this month if you nail it therefore you can assume that ai is gonna be two to three times that or is it something like that is there any framework for i always thought the search volume was a stupid and shitty thing to look at like i think the pam was always much bigger than what just the search volume on the face was and i think if we were at hubspot it the nearly it is a hubspot we wouldn't have done search if we just looked at search volume right a lot of that is that oh that's a lot of that is like the search volume grew a lot over the decade we were really good at seo and then we also just looked at the compounding nature of the long tail we're like wow like there's just so many small search terms that nobody has anything good for if we can just rank for all of those we actually can drive a huge amount of volume and i think barry one of the things you've talked about with ai search is like volume is like a little misleading i think the other thing we've seen with ai search before i hand it back is like sam is that the quality of traffic from ai search is drastically better so people who come to hubspot for my chat gp or google jim and they become customers like three to five x higher than like the ten blue link search yeah because your friend is yeah you like just you go and look at our call recording you'll just see oh i had an hour long conversation with chad at gb it told me to buy hubspot at the end of it and so i would like to buy hubspot and one of the reasons why we actually built this in a way that maps prompts to different levels of intent is because you'd go start in a blog post you'd like to be aware if you have a problem but now you'd become aware if there's a potential solution you'd go on reddit it you'd try to see what people say maybe youtube at the end you'd end up on like a product page maybe try a demo now that all happens in a conversation right so people are just convinced then they get all the recommendations tailored to their specific use case which is also why we actually don't have volume right because they're actually asking very specifically about their specific problem wow i'm just trying to see how many customers we have gotten from search so far this is crazy by the way that one insight kip of saying assume that it's significantly larger that actually is kind of a game changing in insight because that's not how i operated i think the biggest thing companies especially smaller companies will have with this is search was a pretty track investment and so you could say oh i'll do this amount of effort and i can see exactly how many clicks and customers i get back the challenge is whatever you're seeing from chat in terms of referral traffic the actual value to you is probably like ten twenty x more because you're not seeing all of the impressions ai starts as much more akin to like brand marketing where you're just trying to get mass amounts of impressions versus performance marketing where you really were trying to optimize for the click i would expect like you get a fraction of the benefit from the clicks but most of the benefit is the impressions and that's much harder for a small business because you're like well i only really wanna do the thing is that i can track mh anything smaller companies or just companies will have to i get over that hurdle because this is where your consumer is moving towards the the flip side of that though is that the old world of google seo which we thought was more t but then google stated a lot of that traffic over the years but it also took forever like if you you started a blog you did a bunch of that seo stuff it took like six to twelve months for most small businesses to actually get real meaningful traffic which is hard because you're like i'm spending all this money on i'm doing the hell on the on the aa stuff like we've posted youtube videos that get indexed like the same day start showing up in chat gp right it's so fast it's kinda of what barry what you were showing earlier where hampton was mentioned one day and wasn't mentioned the next day like the results are very dynamic and so if you start doing things you you see that impact immediately versus the old school search days is where it took a long time to get like crawled and indexed and finally included youtube might be a better way to drive up your visibility like that's the interesting thing about ai searches because you're not looking for a link you're looking for a mention like old google you really obsessed about links new ai search you just care about citations which you know people mention you for the product or service you wanna appear and because youtube is such a prevalent platform and start up founder stories is such a huge market channel fit for youtube it almost makes you think that your sea sauce could be in youtube and video versus traditional tech based content this is gonna sound like a hubspot to ad and i to the listener i have no problem criticizing hubspot so if you guys help me make for the hub will do you have to me a many time i'm on hubspot now and i used the breeze tool and i just asked them how many of our users came from ai traffic visitors so in like the last three months we've had twelve hundred people come from chad gb it's actually probably way bigger and that i was kieran was thing earlier like you actually can't track as people were like look you up on chat deal a popping team go to join hampton dot so i wanna explain that to everybody watching well that there's twelve hundred visitors that you described sam is somebody who clicked one of those citation links in a chat gp conversation and went directly to the hampton website there's tons of times you're showing up in chat gp or jim and i where there's no links and then they're actually gonna go and enter your website directly or search for you in google or find you a different way or they're just gonna remember you then they're gonna see a video or something be on the road and they're like oh yeah i remember chad you'd be told me about this now i'm gonna go check it out and so that's why barry you're saying that the impact is bigger than just those twelve hundred visits it's not that those twelve hundred visits aren't really important and aren't meaningful from a customer perspective it's just beyond that hey how big of a deal is this like is this sort of like you know arguably amazon was built on the backs of google ads and search and then like more recent examples that didn't turn out well was like wish dot com created ten billion dollars of value off of facebook ads yes because they mastered it hubspot bill a tens of billions of dollar company in part because you pounce on search are you guys seeing that this is like an equal opportunity as that yeah so let me tell everybody a store it we've what we call board off site every fall sam where we bring customers and partners and ceos like toby from shopify was there this fall and we had a the round table with a bunch of our agency partners and one of them was like i just gotta tell you all a is the most important thing that has happened in my business in the last ten years he's like i i have been working nonstop i've built out three thousand different articles around my aa strategy and i'm seeing my customer acquisition skyrocket and i think that that is what is happening for the early adopters one because the channel's is early and it's less competitive as kieran was saying it's still a little bit of the wild wild west and that there's not all these like super sophisticated algorithms which makes it much makes it way more fun which is like you can literally like just look at the recommendations tab in the app in the hubspot au app like that barry showed you and just start doing that stuff and you will see the numbers move because it's not like right now with search engine optimization it's like oh well google changed the algorithm yesterday and i did all this stuff but it didn't really matter that's not the case in this aa thing so for us we look at it as like a top marketing strategy we've been res researching it heavily building custom tooling we've got a big team of people working on it and i've been working on it for like last twenty four months okay so when i started the hustle like i didn't care about search at all i just said i'm gonna make sure that like the technical aspects of my website are fine meaning it loads fast enough and it was like you just used the right headlines and tag your images correctly boring like check stuff so it that takes two minutes the second thing that we would do is we would just write content that always went viral and we did like really good blog posts yeah and because of that we did the third thing which is we got tons of backlinks and because of that i don't know if you guys did a system when you guys bought us there was still a lot of opportunity with our search but like a lot of the really hard work was just done and so we did okay with search accidentally is that the case with this stuff which is as long as i just create good content then i will show up or is it like early early search which is i can sort of for lack of a better word game it or i can like play the game and get a lot of results if i was like your market i think there are three things i would likely focus on i think the first one is that you just need more niche content so like in the old world a page might have like two to three applicable keywords and you're like okay well i just want anytime these two to three keywords are using google this page should appear and i do all my optimization or when saying content do you really mean like just like blog post like a blog post like a web page web page for detail blog page could be a blog post could be a list of could be a web pay web page yeah and now because a chat and google mode conversational you actually might need a hundred variations of searches so like for me if i was your marketer but like okay i'm gonna pull my community i'm gonna see what the most frequently asked questions are like what were the questions you were asking prior to becoming a hampton member that we did a great job of answering and now was start to create like niche content around each of those questions then i think the other thing that is coming back is like modern p r and you actually have a huge advantage here because you have a community with incredible stories i've read a lot of the stories that you put out from your community but like getting some of those placed in traditional or like real publications like you know fortune all of these kind of publications get into their stories in like authoritative publications would be useful for you and then i think youtube like i think that you already have a huge presence on youtube yourself but you could imagine you have in multiple youtube channels youtube channel and get a ton of citations let's just say i have my own youtube channel that sort of like starter story or something like that yeah yeah yeah you can have like a hampton youtube channel that's telling different user stories that are answering all of these like questions related to the prompts that you're tracking and those are all gonna get cited and index as part of this i assume then that ai reads the transcripts and consumes it does the model actually can watch the video too even beyond the transcript yeah just gives you so much fo by the way like that's like my cortisol levels like right because i'm like it's early i gotta do this well super early that the thing i would just for everybody watching it for sam that that i would probably advise on you said maybe like ten minutes ago it's like hey i believe that if you're running small business you gotta focus on your growth channels and you gotta have a couple primary channels for growth one of the things i think we're trying to communicate to you and everybody watching today is that for ae it's influenced by all the other channels it's influenced by how you show up on youtube or reddit it or the linkedin post so like you could drastically change how you show up in chat gp by just like running like an influencer campaign with ten founders on linkedin who published articles about their like hampton journey right but that is kind of the anti of that growth focused channel mindset that i think was dominant over the last ten years of being a founder where actually now you kinda have to show up on a broader set of places which is a very different way of thinking about your marketing strategy do you guys have recommendations on tools that can do or help me do a lot of this work like for example you guys just bought starter story so starter story for the listener is an amazing youtube channel and podcast podcasts about like starting companies but what a lot of people don't realize this is that the secret to starter story is that pat walls the founder is more of an engineer than a contact creator and he's got the most streamlined process i've ever seen in my life took us through through oh my god it's beautiful it's a piece of argument and so like using his process i think he is a three person team two person team he's able to create three super high quality quality videos a week and i think he only works five hours a week like on like creating the content and the rest is just i'm i'm managing the team but anyway my point being is do you guys have any cool tools that i can go ahead and like use to help me get all this stuff done yeah i mean you should use help hubspot for a lot of it sam like we have a brand new red integration so that you could do all of the reddit engagement and show up in threads and identify threads to show up in same you can obviously distribute to youtube tiktok so part of just like your social strategy can run through hubspot i think what pat has done on the back end it's built automation with cloud code to basically repurpose content in basically the rep packaging automation around that i think like this is the interesting thing content is sixty seven percent in engine engineer into discipline and then like thirty percent of craft discipline and so what he's built is the whole system to have a core visa content and then when that content is tripping over a certain like threshold it kicks off a bunch of agents who are able to create different variations of that content and promote them across different platforms and then you can cluster it all together and see how that topic performed it's pretty awesome actually that tool is actually a tool built in in cloud code but i think for your purposes i think a lot of that you'll be able to do and have a hubspot and the youtube part i think youtube itself is like just a hard investment to make it is well we actually have some really awesome video tools that we released to actually help you both on youtube and on tiktok to actually improve would generally say like even the the extreme content automation stuff that the starter story folks have built is not actually that necessary yet like you gotta be pretty far along yeah till you get leverage of that like just some of the basic work on reddit linkedin youtube and some web page content will take you very far for hubspot which youtube channel do you think is the most impactful for you guys for driving business i mean i think it's probably yours i haven't looked at the most up to date data but i i've yeah it's yours it's yours the general hubspot channel and then this show those are the talk three and then which one's the most efficient like highest converting i think marketing against screen is highest as convert them but only because my first million has a far bigger broader audience mh the reason i'm asking is because like on one hand you said like do videos on these stories but on the other hand you're like well just a bunch of silly guys talking about business can but i think both work sam it's like you've got these podcasts and then additionally we have another high performing channel that is just like how to tutorials of like how you solve use cases and problems using hubspot and that's really valuable for a lot of the kind of lower funnel ai search stuff mh if people are actually looking to do something specific or looking to do something specific in hubspot right this is where barry you were showing earlier like different funnel stages and how you think about prompts by those funnel stages and that kind of informs it as well this is crazy i feel a huge sense of overwhelm at the moment like there's so much opportunity and then the other side is like there's so much opportunity i'm so excited i will tell you say most of the customers we talked to barry i want you to chime in is like they're actually just kind of dis franchise from the last era of marketing they're like oh man i'm doing all this email marketing and this traditional google seo and it's not working like i thought it would and then we talked to them we do exactly what we did with you with with them and they're like oh that shit that is so much better like i feel like i'm in control i feel like this is this thing that's growing i know what to do barry you've talked to like hundreds or thousands of companies about this at this point like is that the right picture or is there if missing something yeah i think you know we have a playbook that was running for a while and customers got the hang of it it took them a while but then they did for for marketers and now that that playbook is changing right and i think like up until now out it's taken a little while until the tools have actually kind of reshaped around the new playbook and that's what we're trying to do here right to make it really really easy as easy it was the was to run inbound to now run this new playbook and that's really kind of the whole purpose of of what we built here so can i ask you guys one more question think the this is from this is from me and the listener okay i'm a small business owner i only have let's say a three or four person marketing team and right now they're working on one or two channels that are effective you said that google has a tool where i can like type in something wants to me a guess search console sorry so is there a way that i can make a decision on whether this should be a top priority using some type of data because what you said was it's search console times a certain amount of numbers but is there something that like think about the listener who's not the business owner who has to make the argument is there any data that i can use to make the argument that yes this is needle moving those a hundred and twenty clicks over three months is probably about a hundred to a hundred and forty thousand impressions prep hundred clicks are at three months right yeah so that that's equals how many impressions that's about a hundred to a hundred and forty thousand impressions got that's range so for however many click you've already gotten assume that there's a hundred times more impressions exactly i would say this is a tricky thing right now because open ai are given an impression data as part of their new ad platform because we're a beta user and that's why i can give you kind of a range because we are actually able to reverse engineer from clicks into impressions and so when you can actually start to like use the ad platform part you can start to see why volume is there for things that you want to appear for but organically it's harder i don't know if you have a better answer barry yeah i mean unfortunately there is that gap i think the thing that i've been tracking is like how many weekly active users are we seeing on chat gp and on gemini and like how does that relate to my business and so chat is are like nine hundred million and that's been going up steadily gemini is now i think like five hundred million or so it's like twenty five percent of market share overall so you know for us more than anything it's just like our customers actively putting this into their workflow and if the answer that is yes and like if your founder communities are talking about it then the chance keep going up i wanna answer this slightly differently which is like if i was that marketer what would i do you're making the question of like how would they sell it how did they get their company to believe that this is one of the priorities they should care about i think if i were your marketer in hampton right now sam i would come to you and i would say hey i wanna spend a couple hundred dollars a month i wanna go and use an a tool like the helps hubspot tool and i wanna get a set of prompts we just track to understand how our visibility is trending i then want us to use some call recording for any sales calls and customer calls to understand how they're mentioning finding us on chat gp and jim and i and i wanna see how those things are trending over the course of a month a couple months maybe ninety days and how those trends i think are impacting our without like doing much work and then if you're like oh wow i noticed that there's a correlation in our sales cycle getting faster or customers closing with the mentions of hampton on chat gp or on google i then it might be an interesting signal that we should really lean in and spend more time and effort you need to have some baseline and some tracking here i think almost any business of scale is probably going to have to have kind of a basic operation you might not be able to say anything because you're public but is there any information that kip you could say of like well our blog was getting this and what's interesting is that we have noticed that we're getting two times as much ai visits as we have from our blog so like if you're getting this much through google assume that ai will be blank more if you do it right so there's there's a couple things i think i can't say one is like at the highest level of abstraction we told you that google search visits had gone down at the start of the show right our revenue growth rate is going up what i can tell you is we figured it out how to replace those visits with higher quality traffic a lot of that coming from these ai engines and we're verifying that through this tool but we we using level before it and our own like basically call transcripts and searching the call transcripts that our sales reps are having so that's one i can tell you for sure the second thing i can tell you for sure is that the people who come to us from may search directly become customers at like three to five x rate but they also become customers like an order of magnitude faster because they've done their whole research and consideration process right that ai search i think like the other step is that that's now become like our number one indicator of likely to buy is the fact that they've actually used ai search somewhere like in their experience because that these customers are just so much further down in funnel this is crazy i'm like taking sam i got a question for you like taking these after like taking these notes what i gotta go do yeah what are you gonna go do now i'm going to run to my c founder like this is how founders work they like i just saw something amazing change everything going well first of all i need to get this and dive in so i i'm on hop hubspot right now i see there gonna access very happy with this today i think he'll get this over to you so i want that and then second i'm going to set it up for the next like thirty days i wanna track this for some reason i just totally dismiss this where i didn't even think this was gonna be a thing to focus on and but then i went and use the breeze tool to see like man i'm getting like a lot traffic like what's the world look like if i five x that and is it worth like how much revenue will that make therefore it might be worth assigning one person to this correct so i'm gonna go and dive deep on the data that you guys show and i again that i'm gonna figure out is this worth doing well first of all if you end up figuring out that it's worth doing and ended up doing it we'd love to have you back in a couple months in hear about the journey and what was good what was bad what was easy what's was hard it's crazy i just hired another hubspot specialist we just hired a full time guide to help us with our hubspot and run it because now we have you know hundreds of thousands of leads in there and we're trying to optimize it to be even better like we're getting past like stage one or stage two stuff and now i'm getting to like stage three and this is something that i'm gonna run by him i mean like i need you to figure out how to like keep an eye on this and figure out what we should do we love thanks sam thank you for joining us good luck at hampton god bless you guys see is awesome thank you i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics that get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you you get your podcast this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated well i can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hotspot hubspot grow better hey everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe

so i've personally been using cloud four content creation and i can say it's an absolute game changer like these are sample posts that i've created for subs with the help of cloud code and cloud code this is also another one on linkedin that did pretty well including this infographic which i used claude to help me create and then this is an example of an instagram reel where the entire background was actually generated by claude so there's a lot of really cool things you can do with claude we will set up like your own personal claude skill to write in your brand voice i'll show you how to generate info infographics and images with claude as well and also how to schedule and post everything to social media all entirely within cloud today our guests publishes two hundred and fifty pieces of content per week she has zero employees she has no agency no virtual assistant just her and they die and she gets millions of views and she's gonna show you exactly how she does it live in this episode sabrina rama has built a one point four million person audience as a solo creator today she's walking you through her entire content workflow from scratch i she teaches claude right in her exact voice turns random screenshots on her desktop into multi platform posts and generates infographics and schedules everything to linkedin facebook and twitter without ever leaving claude this is in a theory she's building it live and you can set up the same system yourself today welcome to the show sabrina thanks kip today i'm gonna show you a claude c marketing workflow that's gonna easily save you fifteen plus hours per week so the very first thing we're going to do is teach claude to write like us right we don't want like generic ai s when it comes to my own copywriting skills i'm continuously improving them over time so the prompt you're gonna run here is just starting point to help claude learn about who you are and your brand voice so the prompt is create a right content skill that writes social media posts in my brand voice about my business and personal brand you can replace this if you want to add additional context about your business if claude already knows about your business you could say hey reference the past conversations that we have had about my business and this last line is really important interview me until you're ninety five percent confident the outputs will reflect my brand and so what's gonna happen here is i've already done this because it was a pretty long process but cloud cohort just kept throwing questions at me what platform do i create for what describes what i'm focused on what are my content pillars how long are my posts what are some some tidbits about how i sound what sounds like me what never sounds like me do i share personal stuff how do i typically end a post with a cta who's my target audience does my content differ across platforms and just a lot of other questions it even asked for writing samples so for example here i pasted it in that subs stack example that did really well so that it has a real example of my brand voice so what you're gonna do is open up a new cloud conversation go ahead and type this exact prompts in there and go through the process add in as much context and information as you can so that claude has a really really good idea of who you are what's important to you what's your brand voice etcetera so now once you've created that skill let's actually test it out so start a new chat type slash and then go ahead and click right content now for those of you who are new to the cloud ecosystem when this is highlighted in blue that means claude is using this repeatable skill and you can think of a skill as like a more powerful custom gp it's like a repeatable task that contains a bunch of information context and preferences so that you don't have to explain it again and again to claude so for example here when you look at the really long conversation we had where claude was interviewing me all of that information is now contained in the skill so whenever i type slash right content odd already has all of that context about my brand voice my business etcetera now in most cases you don't even have to trigger the skill explicitly if i were to just say right content this would also trigger the skill because claude takes your prompt and then intelligently tries to figure out like which skills it should use to complete the task successfully okay but if you wanna be explicit about it do this make sure it's highlighted in blue and this guarantees that the skill will be used okay so let's just say right content let's say a linkedin facebook and twitter post about the receipts image image in my downloads folder okay so just a little context on this prompt i'm basically telling cloud c since it has access to my file system my local computer to go find this image called receipts in my downloads folder and then write a post about it so this is really cool if you have photos lying around videos lying around claude can actually take those from your computer write social media posts and then go ahead and even upload them to social media if you want so when you expand what claude is doing here you see it saying search to patterns the user wants me to write the post it's thinking first it found the file so receipts dot jpeg so you could actually click on that to open the file this is it's called receipts it's it's literally just a screenshot of a brand new facebook page that i started about two months ago and achieved over nine million organic use so this would make really really awesome content right for linkedin facebook and twitter so what claude did is it found that image it analyzed the screenshot right so it's reading that image it pulled this information from it and now it's writing post in my brand voice the way i would write it about that topic so here's the sample linkedin post it even ended it with an emoji which is my signature emoji here's the facebook post and then here's the tweet now for my twitter preference i said very very short su sync so that's why it's in this style for those of you who new to cor one thing i really really encourage you to do is to revise these first drafts people are very surprised but i distribute two hundred fifty pieces of content per week completely solo i do not have a team but i still check every single piece of content that goes out because my personal brand is that's important to me and what's amazing with claude is it makes this as easy as possible as it's ever been okay so there's something you don't like about this linkedin post or this facebook post give claude that feedback here okay and after a couple of rounds it feedback then what i encourage you to do is say update the skill with everything we've talked about so as an example if i say hey i don't ever want emojis in my post k i give claude that feedback and then it's gonna update the skill with that preference so it knows it for all future conversations when you do this once a week that is how you fine tune your skills to be really really dialed into your brand voice producing high quality content if you guys wanna try this for yourself click the link in the video description it's got everything all the prompts all the links everything you need get set up including a link to potato to try it out click the link in the description or scan the qr code stop me if you've heard this before your support team opens the q monday morning two hundred tickets before the first sip coffee they already know what's in there password resets order updates the same questions over and over what if that part of the job handled itself hubspot customer agent resolves those repeat tickets using your actual crm data and knowledge base your team can focus on the conversations that actually need them and your customers can get the answers they need faster check out hubspot dot com to learn much more about hubspot custom agent now the next thing i wanna show you is creating visuals to go alongside your post and for that we're gonna use a tool i called potato basically the tool i built for myself to be able to scale a content creation without going crazy a lot of people use it for publishing and scheduling to social media but it can also do things like create visuals infographics carousel cells and even videos so once you go into potato here videos on the left side click create new video in the top right corner this will just show you different templates that you can create you can create like slideshow shows ai videos infographics like this we're just gonna create a nice whiteboard infographic so if i go back to the initial linkedin post i showed you this is actually one of the infographic templates from potato and this did pretty well on linkedin this was a life's announcements that got a lot of engagement so to set this up is pretty easy just go to settings here click api you'll need to generate an api key because this is what's gonna allow claude to communicate with potato to go create those visuals and schedule everything to social media now for clock desktop and cloud core it's really really really simple just follow the instructions here and this is where you tell claude to interact with other tools you use for example hubspot gmail google drive air table canvas this is where you connect everything to connect potato just scroll down and click add custom connector and you can name it any anything but it's clear if you call it potato and then what you're gonna do is just copy paste this url here and then you're gonna see it pop up here you're gonna see a button that says connect and that will just make sure you're authenticated in potato so go ahead and click connect an oa off window will pop up and that's pretty much it it is connected so here's the prompt we're gonna use use potato tool to create a visual to a accompany our linkedin post let's use the whiteboard infographic template now you don't have to specify which template you wanna use potato will actually look at what the content is and try to match it to a template that makes sense for the content and the social media platform but there are a couple templates i really really enjoy using for linkedin especially the whiteboard infographic is one of them and i highly encourage people who are new to cloud core to actually expand the thinking to see what it's doing right so here claude is interpreting your prompt and it's actually going to find the potato tool k that's the little logo that you see here and then it's calling one of the tools potato crate visual now that it says the visual is being generated and we just have to wait until it's done so that's what's happening here it's since this is using nano banana two to generate the image it's gonna take one to two minutes until that infographic is complete so when it's ready it'll say here's your whiteboard infographic so just click show image and it will open up the link right so boom ai powered facebook growth in fifty days nice little charts and you can do all kinds of visuals guys like this is just one example that does tend to do well on linkedin because it's like a really cool whiteboard infographic look okay so now i've shown you how to teach claude to write in your brand voice we have three draft posts it even analyze the receipts image maybe i wanna post that to twitter or facebook directly and then use the infographic for linkedin but how do you actually post social media that's where connectors come in so for example if you have a connector between claude and gmail claude will actually be able to read your emails summarize your emails escalate ones that are urgent and even draft responses you can think of the same model when it comes to social media by connecting claude to potato you can now manage your entire social media calendar through the cloud interface so this is the prompt we're going to try next so we're going to try scheduling all three of these posts ten minutes from now and i wanted to just show a little bit of variety so for linkedin we're gonna post it with that infographic for facebook we're gonna post it with like my screenshots of the facebook analytics the receipts image and then for twitter we're just gonna post the tweets no image at all yeah so it's really cool here is you can schedule posts in advance you can even reschedule posts let's say you you had something come up and you wanna announce it today across all of your socials so you wanna push back all of your content another couple of days so it's really really flexible like all you have to do is talk within claude so i have personally observed users setting up c and even cloud code and it's a total unlock in terms of productivity like people are truly able to batch a week's worth of high quality content every single piece human manually reviewed so that it's in your brand voice and just really high quality something you would be proud to post and you can truly do that today in just a few hours by sitting here with cloud c and cloud code and like i mentioned earlier the real competitive advantage is in continuously improving your skills right so for every conversation you have then you wanna end it telling c hey take everything we've talked about and update my copywriting skills update my social media skills that is how you use ai truly as a collaborative partner instead of something that's just like generating lazy sla okay and here is our infographic scheduled for linkedin here is twitter and here is facebook and then if you wanna delete these posts like i mentioned like let's say we were just testing let's just say delete these three posts to clean them up i was just testing it's really crazy you don't have to use the potato interface at all once you kind of get used to all the possibilities within cloud so to summarize everything we've talked about we create a skill called rights content that will write social media posts in your brand voice about your business and in your brand preferences and the way we did that is claude interviewed you all of these questions right all of this until it was ninety five percent confident that the outputs would reflect your brand so once the skill was created we opened a new chat and tried it out here so when this is highlighted in blue that means claude is using this specific skill we told it to write linkedin facebook and twitter posts in my voice about the topic receipts in my downloads folder which is analytics screenshot from facebook here were the draft post linkedin facebook and twitter and then we connected it to potato to create a sample infographic right here and then we use potato to schedule these posts to all three social media platforms so that's pretty much it if you guys are interested in learning more about potato my app just head over to potato dot com okay and happy to answer any questions see you next time this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated well i can see the clients hold history calls support tickets emails and here's a task from three days ago i totally missed hotspot spot girl better everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited to have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below or you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe i wanna tell you about a podcast i love it's called nudge it's hosted by phil ag it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the audio destination for business professionals and it's the uk's fastest growing business podcast what i love about it is that the nudge listeners love no fluff no bs evidence based marketing tactics they get in each episode you're gonna wanna listen because this is like an nba worth of insight in every single podcast and entrepreneurs you're gonna love the show because it's filled with repeatable proven studies not hearsay say not one off success stories marketers you're gonna love it because it discusses the psychology behind great marketing and what marketers are getting wrong listen to the nudge wherever you get your podcast

tools like chat g and claude are telling your customers to go and buy your competitors products or services and you don't even know it today i'm gonna give you the masterclass class and how to transform how you are found and recommended in ai search engines you can't wait any longer chat gb and claude are out there recommending your competitors instead of you and you're losing business because of it that all changes today on today's show i'm gonna walk you through how to do an audit of how you appear on ai search engine i then i'm gonna walk through the best practices to change and increase the amount of recommendations you get across claude chat gp complexity and google gemini and and then i'm gonna walk you through a case study of how to act actually apply those best practices so you know exactly how to do them once you finish watching today's episode okay let's get right into it so for the purpose of today's show i'm gonna use some queries that typical buyers would use something that's very typical that would be asked for is what is the best crm for a two hundred person b b saas company that's scaling from smb to mid market we need something our sales and marketing teams can both use trisha google search used to get a list of ten links now an ai search that what you're seeing is the ai is giving real in depth recommendations see look it doesn't even start with any companies right what actually matters this is ai setting the stage for what you should value and actually setting the evaluation criteria for your product or service not you fortunately for me in this particular case a hubspot crm came in as the number one best overall option in this case what's challenging now is that these questions are being asked across different search engines in the across different ai engines you've got that same exact prom hubspot is the most natural fit for that profile a two hundred person b b saas company salesforce microsoft dynamics fresh sales and z so you're seeing a very different kind of response similar companies but not the exact same and these companies are positioned in different ways the reasons that the ai is giving is very different and ai is getting this information from your website from reddit from ranking and review websites from linkedin from youtube all of these sources so you your customers in your community are really determining what ai is saying when they're answering this response and you'll see that these results really different like this is complexity same question and per complexity you now have a whole different set of how the information is portrayed again still hubspot salesforce and z but why the recommendations are what they are continue to change and if we go over to google search google search is now moved very heavily to what's called ai mode and so what you'll see is that same question in google search is running through google's gemini and models and it's gonna give its own recommendation but again very different set of customers very different set of reasoning depending on which tool you go and ask these questions in the trick is for your company there are a whole host of questions people answer at hubspot we just launched an awesome tool to help you track and manage all of this it's called hubspot au you can click the link in the description below to try it for free but today i wanna show you what you can do to get your team or your ceo bought in into this is a problem that your company needs to solve in your marketing so you obviously want to change how you're getting recommended across all of these ai engines you see similar but yet very different responses across the four major ai engines that i just showed you what i wanna walk you through is what this looks like before i recorded i had a series of five questions that i went and asked all these ai engines took all the answers and put them in one page would be easy for us to all go through it we saw marketing platforms so you can see from a marketing platform perspective hey we're evaluating marketing automation platforms so we have a twelve person marketing team run inbound and outbound and need strong reporting what should i be looking at and it shows you across chat gp the response led with hubspot okay cool led with hubspot across all of them that's interesting but something changes very drastically here when i get to customer service platform which we have an amazing customer service product it's used by tens of thousands of businesses we see a whole host of different competitors and we see the results change drastically so chat gp says zen desk you've got claude saying zen desk and intercom and their fin product and hubspot way down the list and it's kind of like an i'd add on if like you're a hubspot customer you should consider it google jim and i again it's thinking about zen desk salesforce intercom jira complexity zen desk intercom fresh desk hubspot so clearly we're not showing up how we want to be in this particular topic we ourselves as a leader in customer service software so to be positioned behind these other companies is a big concern what i'm trying to show you here is that you can ask more complex questions because remember in the old days google google search you would just have a couple words that you were looking up now people are putting in sentences multiple sentences paragraphs around their situation and trying to get more advanced and more personalized recommendations and so it's like we are currently using salesforce but it's too expensive and too complex for our team what are the best alternatives for a mid market company this is again something lots of people would ask as they were going forth and looking obviously again you can go track all of this in hubspot au and we'll run these prompts for you every day and show you how your results are changing every day we just dropped our ae playbook this is the exact strategy we use at hubspot to make it the number one most visible crm in ai search it breaks down the five decisions that determine whether you show up in ai answers and gives you a seven step workflow to actually execute it get it for free scan the qr code or click the link in the description you should go and come up with these same prompts for your business you can even ask claude chat g your ai tool of choice say hey this is my business research my business and based on that give me ten of the most likely prompts my buyers are searching to find answers related to my product or service and it will go and give you those ten prompts back and you can do exactly what i did you can go one to one and you can search them and you can see how you show up and you can compile a report i made a web page you could do a whatever you want and you would go and show that to your team to your boss to your ceo whomever is appropriate depending on the size of your company and say we have some real big gaps relative to what our buyers are asking and how we're showing up and we have to close those gaps so many businesses are not yet participating in how they show up in these ai search engines and we have data that over half of buyers are now using these tools to make complex buying decisions to do research to build their considerations set so if you're not showing up here you're going to be left behind and your buyers are gonna get pointed to one of your competitors so i strongly recommend you get a set of prompts you take those you search them through and you actually compile a report of what that might look like again you can use the hubspot a tool below if you wanna automate all that there's a twenty eight day free trial and you can put this all together for free there as well okay let's say you have this and you've done the work for your business just like i have here and let's go back to question number three because again question number three we do not like how we are showing up so how do these ai search engines get these answers so when it comes to ranking better in these ai search engines you've got a few things that matter in traditional google search it used to be about backlinks now it's about brand mentions do you have consensus if the ai is out there looking at the conversations online are they gonna see that you have authority and strength and a high density of mentions for your brand and you drive this through p r and earned media if you go on podcasts if you're participate participating in communities like reddit and g two and linkedin and do you have a guest content strategy where you're publishing content on other sites where people might be able to discover you the second thing you can do is these review platforms like the yelp google reviews anything that's a review platform has a lot of ai authority because it has a lot of contextual information that your buyers are giving and putting out there that the ai engines can go look at see if it applies to the question that they're getting and go ahead and put what those buyers are saying and use that to inform their given response so if you're not participating on review sites it's a big opportunity you can run a campaign with your customers to generate more reviews and incentivize them to get more reviews engage with and respond with every review and if there's something you wanna reframe your response can be helpful to reframe that issue as the ai goes and looks through it and you wanna make sure that your business in your products you're in the right categories that you are represented in the right way so that when ai goes and looks at them they'll know what your product is and what you're actually trying to do now the third thing here is that domain authority has a threshold which means that you have to do some work to actually build your own authority and that means you gotta publish original research you have to build free tools that people might link back to and send some authority back to you you wanna a partner for editorial placements we talked a little bit about that and also if there's anybody linking back to your site and they're going to broken links or four zero four pages where it's dead end and the ai might look at that and be like well i thought these people were a fit for this but it goes back to this dead end page there's no context that i'm gonna move on to the next thing you wanna fix those problems to make sure that the ai bots have the full context of what you're trying to do so i'm gonna give you a specific example relative to that query just a second but if i read you what would i do monday morning to actually transform and change how you show up in ai search engines early year i told you about this query what are the best customer service platforms for a b b company doing about fifty million revenue we want ai power ticket resolution but don't wanna rip out our whole stack so i did a summary here of like we're conditional we are included across all four but like not really the number one choice zen desk is currently the number one choice and inter intercom two the second choice on three out of the four and the root cause is that ai models have learned to describe hubspot service hub which is our customer service product as a crm add on not a standalone service platform the product is being cited for ecosystem fit not for service depth that's a positioning problem not a product problem i think this is a great way to think about this how you position and tell the stories around your products are really gonna drive how you show up in these ai engines and how they tell your stories on your behalf and so i put a little plan together here of things that you would actually do so the first thing to do is understand how they describe us so we've done that work and we'd probably wanna do a few other prompts the next thing you wanna do is exactly what we'd would say you wanna go and do some work on the review platforms in our case would be g two dot com ka terra trust pilot and we wanna audit service hubs g two category listing ensure that it appears under help desk software if this is a category we wanna be a part of customer service software ai customer service software we wanna launch a targeted review campaign like i said to get more customer reviews created a dedicated trust pilot response cadence so that we would be able to respond and engage in real time these are gonna make big changes in how we show up in these review sites and these review sites are gonna inform how we show up in those ai search engines we then need to think about how we are mentioned along for this specific topic so we could have published a dedicated page around hubspot service hub versus zen desk on hubspot dot com which is gonna be a very valuable url because that's gonna tell the ll m's chat gp cloud etcetera that oh this is what hubspot perspective of these two products and how they compete against each other you wanna do some p can we get some more traditional public relations and earn media around this product can we get some data to show how our customers are using the product to understand the state of ai so we can get some credibility for being a really great ai customer service product these are all things that are gonna change how we show up in these individual responses then the last thing you're gonna wanna do is basically change what the ai models how they learn about our product and so that's fixing the product page create customer stories specifically around this subject this search query around service hub we wanna develop a cost of complexity calculator if you create free tools and calculators you get more links and more authority and you're gonna change so we could for example create a cost of complexity calculator to actually get more authority on this topic and be seen as a leader in the customer service space so these are real actionable things that we can go do over the next few weeks to change how we show up and you can literally take this episode for the gaps that you've identified and use the same methodology to figure out what your action items can be to actually fix how you show up in chat gb and claude and jim and i and complexity your customers are out there they're looking and using ai more than ever to make buying decisions and you want to be a part of that and you want to not just be mentioned but you want to be mentioned correctly and well relative to your product your service and what you're trying to accomplish this is i believe one of the biggest marketing opportunities of twenty twenty six and i think it is critical to everybody get started on this right away i hope that you found this really helpful you can use hubspot ae if you wanna automate a lot of that link to start a free trial down below in the description or you can check out that qr code on the screen above and i'll be with you real soon i'm marketing against the grain hey everyone you know karen and i have been doing the podcast for a while now we've been at this for a couple years we love it we could not be happier to be doing this but we wanted to take things to the next level we wanna level up the impact we're having with marketing against the grain so the next step of our journey is something we're really really excited about we're gonna launch the marking against the grain newsletter and marketing against the grain newsletter is going to be amazing if you are a marketing leader practitioner you're in the trenches do in marketing every day this is for you we're gonna deliver right to your email inbox and you're gonna get all the behind the scenes frameworks practices tutorials from us from guest we have on the show and from people even beyond the podcast that we think are gonna be helpful and really have an impact on your day to day week to week doing marketing you're going to love it it is something we've been talking about for a while we're really excited have it out in the world we've already got a hundred thousand marketers who are on this newsletter please join it's completely free we'd love to have you as part of the marketing against the grain community and it's easy you can click the link in the description below you can head to marketing against the grain dot com slash subscribe this data is wrong every freaking in time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated or well i can see the clients hold history calls support tickets emails and here's a test from three days ago i totally missed hotspot hubspot grow better well