sam what's up man i got a i guess some good news for you great click that link i just put in there it's oh it's here lucky day dave bro here's the article in the financial times called the alpha of ugliness and it turns out the being ugly outperform they analyzed a bunch of investors and the investors who were conventionally ugly outperform by two percent i think so yeah i i saw that but here's the problem i'm i'm a five i'm five ten i'm not ugly enough to be made fun of but i'm definitely not hot enough to be six foot to get any advantages yeah so that's the issue should i get u or hotter i guess u i feel like i could rule the world i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on go yeah when i was in second grade i really like this one girl and i was like hey when i asked that girl to the whatever the dance or something like we had like some party in like third grade and not i think about it that's kinda young to be asking girls but that's what happened so i went up or know why my friend went up her and was like hey she sean likes you and she goes sean ugly and then that was third grade and then i've i'm still reeling i'm thirty i'm thirty five now i'm hoping at thirty six i'm i'm off that but you know still recovering i would say so ana non the founder of cb insights tweeted this out i think a week ago and he does really end up tweets where he to looked at data and stuff and he had this one thing where he said he said i've found this data that talks about how good you look and your returns and a lot of people think that the hotter you are or the taller you are the better returns you're gonna have that which which makes sense taller people get more get better treatment and he said no it's the opposite there's a correlation between attractiveness or i guess an opposite correlation so between attractiveness and rate of returns for investment managers well yeah because the the investment doesn't know how tall you are you know the tall guy probably can raise more money but not necessarily make more money well and it's i guess is it the ugly or you are the harder you've had to work yeah that's what i've been clinging to that's the story i i've been telling myself so speaking of hedge funds or investments let me ask you a question okay do you know anything about hedge funds not a lot okay they what you need to know is it they work really hard and it's a really intense lifestyle so you understand that i'm sure would if i paid you ten million dollars a year if you could earn ten million dollars a year would you be a hedge fund would you work at a hedge fund is like a like a portfolio manager would you live that lifestyle for ten million dollars i don't know the lifestyle but probably not because i really like my lifestyle so i would not trade it for a worse lifestyle if that makes sense but like let's assume let's assume ten years ago what i have made that trade yeah i wouldn't made that trade and that's what i think they do i think they they make that trade earlier in their career and then they get that's what they do so i'm reading this book about steve cohen do you know who steve cohen is he he owns sports teams and he's like one of the is one of the most successful hedge fund guys but and i think billions is based off of him right and roughly yeah so bobby ox is off him but basically steve cohen he started as a bay he's basically a day trader a glorified day trader that's how he made his first couple billion worked at like it like a billion dollars day trading yeah that that that's not the best explanation but but but but basically it's day trading on steroids so it's kinda like calling like a body bill they're like oh you like to exercise but it was basically his own money or he was at it started with his own so well he started as he started as a kid twenty three years old he worked at like something that looked like the wolf wall street to style setup up where it was like a ding in the beginning that wolf wall street he's selling petty stocks at like a like a garage basically in the small like thirty person operation he kind of started at thing like this the story is and and they interviewed his boss in this book they're like dude on this first day of work he came and he goes if i was you i would do that and make that trade and the the boss was like who do you think you are telling me what to do in your first day of work and steve was like that's what i'm telling you that's gonna work within a few hours it made eight grain of profit after two years he was making a hundred grain in profit a day for the firm and it was like a day it was like a day trading firm where they basically in the eighties it wasn't quite popular to do day trading it was more so hold something for a long period of time pixar based off the businesses he's so good because he's a sa avant because he figures out some arbitrage and he's exploiting that why is he making a hundred grand a day so at first it was he claimed it was intuition which i believe he claims that he's a bad at math which is uncommon for a lot of these folks but he claims he's bad at math and it was intuition he said i was just look at the ticker it was at the time of a a physical ticker that would be on the board and it would like change stock prices and he was like i would just find these weird arbitrage and it was he he's he would short stocks based off of like this just changed by one dollar i think it should be fifty cents higher i'm gonna buy it and sell it within a few hours it's incredibly challenging reading this book to figure out exactly how he did this that's totally exciting as an answer by the way it's like you know that's like my idiot friend from college who's looking at the ro let wheel and it's like guys feel it's gotta be rent it's been black four times in a row and i'm like that's not how this works that's very frustrating if that's the answer of how this guy became you know a billionaire is good old gut i just don't i don't know i don't believe that that sounds it's very frustrating tweeted like rain man and just figured out which direction things are gonna go well i tweeted out about it and martin sk who worked in the headphone world has been replying to my tweets and he's like yeah it does seem like intuition based more so in intuition based like when you're playing blackjack or poker you know roughly the odds as you're going really quickly the problem with steve cohen is he's never done a wonderful job of explaining exactly how he did it however at the age of like thirty two he started his own fund he had ten million dollars of his own money and that's why he started sa that's what the his firm was called and he hired a bunch of people and he gave him like crazy commissions where you could earn thirty percent of the profits you made the firm and by the time he's like forty two sa which is mostly his own money accumulates like ten billion dollars however after the first like six hundred million dollars then it's all not all but it's a lot of insider trading and they would do crazy shit like they would fly to conferences take the conference speaker out to dinner at a at a conference where they're like talking about like different drugs that might become legal based off of different trials that they're currently running they basically bribe these guys to give them information like this trial is going really bad after he trouble for this or or no because he's i'm looking it up steve c and network worth nineteen point eight billion and appears to be a free man so yeah so here's the here's here's the ru he does get in trouble for it but after he's worth already probably five or ten billion dollars he's do they do it very quietly he's been very quiet for years building accumulating about a billion dollars old then he does he do later then he gets in trouble and you wanna know something he completely gets away with it he gets convicted and he gets trouble sa has the shutdown technically although now it just becomes his family office a year later he starts another firm called point seventy two the guy he he did not get in trouble at all clearly broke the law many many many many times however as i'm reading this book i'm reading about the the lifestyle of what it's like it is seven days a week twelve hours a day more than twelve hours when you do the lifestyle thing i wanna read martin's reply to you so you were like this guy steve cohen fascinating what i don't understand you know he's basically became worth over a hundred million dollars as a day trader on steroids it says he followed his intuition as bad math what does that mean a great question so here's what martin says i studied cohen for a good part of my life and i think these were the key components as a trader he has an unbelievably cap memory for stocks cap wow that's a word i love that so i don't i don't quite know what it means but you'll see me strengthen on that around for for the next three days alright i guess it means good we'll just say good who spacious one of the two yeah so for any given stock he literally knows what is the situation and controversy this is a little bit like how it impress some people that kramer knows most of the stocks he's asked about they are similar animals number two he's unwavering on discipline and portfolio slash firm structure with leverage and a diversified group of portfolio managers the net result for investors incredible other firms like millennium and citadel have figured this out too cohen is also a very smart business person which most traders are not he can attract impressive talent because he speaks the traders language whereas other similar firms don't have active traders managing the company i think it's a competitive advantage the style has been somewhat effectively replicated by its competitors however and the arbitrage has all but vanished into us public equities yeah so that's still not the best answer right that's a very that answer doesn't feel good like it's not giving me exactly what i wanted he said one more thing that i think is great you were like it's crazy that he was getting you know thirty percent to fifty percent annual fees he goes remember martin goes remember that's a fifty percent net of fees so his fees were fifty percent so basically he had ten years we made about a hundred percent a year it's arguably the strongest stretch of high returns ever done renaissance capital it's amazing and this guy he's he's sneaky he's a sneaky guy he's he does a he does a lot of bad things in in this book okay tell me some of them for example you know gl g which we've talked about constantly expert he was yeah so basically what gl does i'm a consultant technically everyone's wrong on gl g so a bank is gonna take a company public they let's say it's hubspot for example they wanna know all about email marketing they find email marketers and ask them about which software they use they wanna learn about if it's a good company or not whatever well steve cohen was gl g's biggest customer he spent millions of dollars a year he would become friends with the quote consultants get their information take them out of dinner and be like look just tell me the truth and i'll put you on salary tell me like for example if you're if you're on this board if you work for the government and you're getting ready to approve a drug just tell me if it's gonna get approved tell me how the trials are going he's brighter napkin in i've written the number three and as you keep talking i will start adding zeros go yeah i mean it it it was basic like that like that and then they get the information from the guys and they just they basically like they they they honey pot these guys but they become friends with them ask about their families and then they get the information and they bail they never see them again sounds like they're dating like that that they but by the way this gl you think is really funny when you do these calls tell me if you're like me so i've done a couple of these calls to talk really slow yeah first of all it's like eighth grade and i'm trying to hit the word count yeah yeah so basically your gl they paid by the hour charged three grand an hour i become very cap caucasian yeah i feel absolutely silly doing this these like i know in my head like there's an intellectual part of me that's like of course two thousand dollars an hour hell yeah i should be making that and you know what this is gonna be such this i'm giving them liquid gold that's what in my head i say that however during it i become very insecure about what i'm saying and i'm like none of this is special this is all so basic what i'm saying and i feel like i'm a high paid escort that doesn't know how to have sex and i'm like i hope they're happy with what they're getting here for two thousand dollar hour because did he ask something if it was was for that it's a it's a weird thing i don't actually do it anymore but in this book so one of the ways they made like a billion dollars was doing this for drugs and they found out to their investigation that ten percent of us doctors admitted to being one of these consultants on some of these networks and that's only the people who admitted it and so it was like a it's like a pretty widespread problem my takeaway so far in the book is if you're a white collar crown criminal you could basically get away with it you you can get away with it that's crazy so he got convicted of insider trading and what did he have to pay and did he go to jail he paid billions he did not go to jail wow maybe he paid two billion but he started new firm the next the next year right he paid two billion as he laughed uncontrollably alright so you were gonna talk about like their work culture sounded like yeah so i got obsessed with this work culture and i saw this quote by keith boy and so keith boy was at palms conference and he talks about nine nine six do you know what nine six is it means chinese work schedule that's the chinese work schedule it stands for nine am to nine pm six days a week and he keith stance it seems as he loves nine nine six and he tells a story about one of the portfolio companies they just hired the cfo and the woman who'd got the job she was like i was specifically looking looking for a nine nine six culture and i googled and i found out that on your job listing you said that you guys were nine nine six and that seems crazy to me because that i don't think is a lifestyle that i want and so i was curious about nine nine six and so i got down this i went down this rabbit hole of of of working so do you know the hitch have you ever read the history of like the forty hour workweek week do know how it came to be roughly here's what i know you tell me where where i'm missing something which is just that when we went to like the factory industrial thing that's when the forty hour work workweek week of going into the the quote clinical office the the the plant the factory became a thing it wasn't that way before so somewhat yeah so basically in the book sapiens the author hypo hypothesis sizes that hunter gatherers you know we're talking pre civilization worked something like thirty hours a week and spent a lot of time just being idle with family then the industrial revolution comes along and factories and machines come about and in the late eighteen hundreds early nineteen hundreds there was as much of surveys done amongst the workers and it was found on average most of them were working a hundred hours a week six days a week so they're working constantly and it was a grind there was constant like protests there's constantly people fighting over this there was leg legislation that went into power in both england and america in like the nineteen twenties where it was like government workers you don't have to work that much we're gonna give you a normal work but basically factory workers didn't get shit then in the nineteen twenties henry ford was like hey look the thing about our guys working so much and my company is so big at ford ford motor company i need people to buy cars because if they're working so much they can't buy pants they can't buy shirts they can't go out to eat and thus they can't buy cars therefore i'm gonna try this thing where we're gonna create the weekend we're gonna give saturday and sunday off because if they don't buy shit people aren't gonna buy cars so in the nineteen twenties henry ford says the weekends a thing and that was the beginning of the forty hour work week at least in terms of like it being system systematically henry ford created the weekend he made it like a thing yeah yeah he was the he was the first big company to make it a thing yeah and he he made it a thing and what he found was he did something crazy at the time he goes hey workers guess what i'm giving you saturday and sunday off i'm not even gonna touch your pay your pacing gonna a stay the same and that was really revolutionary at the time his workers ended up loving him more he also did a bunch of crazy stuff so he built towns so there's towns similar to what facebook does now and google they actually like give you a a s in if you live within five miles of the office because he was like i want you to be close to the office i want you to be available when you can but i'm gonna give you saturdays and sundays off and that was kind of the beginning of the weekend and then since then that's kinda become standard even though he gave them the weekend people were still working twelve hour hours a day so he was people were working sixty hours a week but then he eventually lowered it a bit to forty hours a week and that became kinda with the forty hour work week in america is poor workers and so he sort of invented that what what a legend yeah well he's done a lot of bad stuff too so so i just googled so sundays we're kinda casually off but it was like for church but he's the one who made saturday also off basically and then also the the forty hour workweek week versus seventy hour workweek week which is crazy yeah and he didn't change their pay he goes i'm gonna i'm gonna give you what he wants he stuff four did like how bad how bad we talking super anti semitic so he big fan of hitler wrote books called like i i here's has a famous book i figure out exactly what it's called but it's called like our problem and it's like basically why jews are bad oh wow so yeah he so a very very imperfect person but that's okay we we could talk about the forty hour work week which is interesting and so that worked out and that's how the forty hour work week came to be now over time a lot of companies have tested forty day weeks and some claim and it's effective but i think the verdict fill out these things are really hard to measure and then i went and read a bunch of studies on what's the optimal amount of work time have you ever studied what the optimal amount of work time is no a lot of research says that humans can only focus and concentrate really hard five hours a day that's what some of this research says there's also a ton of research that shows that there's like stupidly high it's like thirty percent increase of heart attack blood pressure things like that of anything above fifty hours a week and so there's like a huge issue at nine six in health and i've read enough biographies you no there's definitely a trend like kinda like have you ever heard the story of like rich people having in the or nineteen hundred having to go to florida for fresh air because i needed to like relax or they have like stomach ulcers have you ever like hurt like there's like no i don't read history books there's a pretty like common story amongst types of evolution or because of something else well they were just like having nervous break like it was like it's like a common thing amongst the biographies and and the doctors would be like you need fresh air you have to go to florida you need fresh air you're having a nervous breakdown it's a very common thing of these of these guys like justin kennedy john rockefeller having to retire for basically or take a three months sa because they're broken you know john rockefeller at the end of his life you know alopecia is yeah he had alopecia so at the age of fifty he lost all of his hair that's a stress induced disease at least a lot of people think so so is your first all a couple questions number one is nine nine six still in effect i thought i heard something that china was like rolling that back that they don't do that anymore technically it's illegal but still some people are but still it's practice so for example there's a lot of quotes that says like jd d dot com you as well as jack m from alibaba there's quotes where they're like look like do you wanna be successful if you do you have to do nine nine six and they like say this on record in their wechat talking about it right so it it's still common i think though there is an interesting point here which is i think americans in particular don't want you wanna create a narrative about why china can potentially beat us and you say to yourself like all they care about is work work work work work and i just don't want that life and so there could be this the case of like well they don't actually work significantly harder than americans but that's just the excuse that we're gonna give in our head because in reality i think a small percentage of chinese companies still doing nine nine six in general a lot of the young chinese are revolt against that and that's one of the reasons why you see a lot of chinese american workers i think because they prefer the american style versus the chinese style so okay so that's what's going on in china keith boys says that he runs his companies on nine nine six no you guys that barry boot at like twice a what do he was what's he so here's what he so there's company called ta which ironically is a soft wear for or or it's a service for warehouse workers to help factories find warehouse workers he says it's a nine nine six in the office every single person every single day it's very impressive and it's not surprising why that company has done so well in fact or he says this is why the asian company succeed because they do nine nine six so yeah as an investor you love when your company do nine nine six why not of course of course you love it okay next thing do you do you feel that with hampton you're gonna be the henry ford of our generation and take us down to the five hour workday rather than the eight hour workday is that a thing you're doing because i'm trying to bring it i'm trying to revolutionize the adult map right like you know the adult nap is gonna be my lasting legacy when i die people are gonna be napping in the middle of the day and they're gonna every day they're gonna thank sean for for bringing this new nap culture to to adult the adulthood naps i've read thousands or i've read hundreds of biographies naps are very common amongst a lot of the people i've read about by the way so if it makes you feel good naps are common you read about legend legend nap ina nap therefore sean equals legend yeah you're indian you're good at math you get it do i think that no i think the forty hour work week i i don't think it's broken that's what i think i i don't think it's broken like how many how many hours a day do g are you like actively trying to work and then how many hours there day do you think you're productive i'm just those two numbers so like i don't plant nine to six i don't like that that's i i treat my running my companies i like i remember my parents are like oh you work for yourself you can come out to lunch with us i'm like no nine to six it's my job i'm available and i'm working right so i say that i'm nine to six i spend a lot of time thinking like i literally just be sitting there thinking writing notes so if you consider that work i think i work forty hours a a week if you consider work like typing and actually contributing to a product way less ten hours a week yeah i do the same thing where i'm like it's awesome i'm my own boss problem i'm an asshole as a boss to myself you know like i work harder one i'm my own boss versus if somebody else was managing me but nowadays with kids my schedule is very different i basically do these sort of like three hour sprints three times a day but at different times so like this right now is my first sprint it basically starts at usually eight thirty or nine and i'll go till eleven thirty or noon then i go play with my kids for a little bit which is honestly only like twenty thirty minutes but we'll do something fun and then i'll come back i'll do another ninety minutes in that that next block then i'll go workout and then after the workout i got another ninety minutes so that's kinda like the second block as those two ninety minutes to split with a workout and then late at night after my kids sleep i'll do another ninety minutes and so i don't know what that adds up to ninety ninety ninety plus the three hours in the morning but that's how much i work which is probably like six seven hours a day and and by the way i i i i don't i think i kinda gloss over those but at byte dance they currently have employees work six days a week every fourteen days and then what's the big what's the big like phone company over there is it called about whole lot how do you how do weigh pronounce who okay they routinely ask staff for six day weeks every month and they give and they pay them extra for it right so like it's still pretty common but at the end of a forty hour workweek week where it's been a hard week i find myself fried like i i i'll sit in like either play a video game or like watch tv like i i can't do much i don't know how a guy like elon musk or some of these folks like have an intellectual stimulation for that long i find it to be very very challenging and and i personally cannot do it so would i take ten million dollars a year to be a hedge fund portfolio manager and live that life where you're on call twenty hours a day maybe for twenty million dollars a year for ten million probably not i think it'd be hard i mean i mean there's a number right there's a number where you would do it for a couple years i mean that's to put you on blast but like you're already gonna be creating that much or more value without doing it so why would you ever make that trade right like it's not does say i would i said maybe i said there's a number yeah that there is a number i i that number has to be pretty high ten million not a chance right twenty probably not i i i don't know yeah but that sounded like that's not that probably not there sounded like give me three more seconds of silence and i'll change my mind but have you ever read a book like have you ever watched james bond and you see the villains lifestyle and you're like that's exciting i wanna do bad stuff that's what that it's that's what working at yeah yeah just just do it just do it hood rhett stuff with your friends that's what it feels like you're doing bad stuff with your homie is and it that that does seem a one sexy thing i like about head headphones so there was a guy when i was in college guy comes into the office our guy comes to our our class slick back hair and i forgot his name but his dad is like a legend in the hedge fund game like he was like one of the og hedge fund guys who made a billion dollars or whatever this is the sun suns got his own hedge fund and he comes in and he just had you know when you like you guys are talking before we start recording about like the somehow the like more successful and rich people get the act actually the more like at peace and like chill they are what do they're they're more generous with their time ironically and they're nicer and kinder this guy kinda had that energy where he was in no rush and i just remember i could literally feel that energy coming off and this guy was in no rush which was very different than every other person i had seen even was this person we're always rushing from one class to the next or cram for finals and shit like that like this like high achieve or stress it's just like who who was this person forgot his name regardless sky comes in and he's there to give a talk and he says basically two interesting things that always stuck with me first thing he said was he he's talking about his hedge fund and and blah blah we're all kind of like eat out the palm of his hand and he's like you know who here would find it fun to work at a fund like ours and and do this like make big bets for a living and like you know eighty percent the class hands up and he goes he goes okay so look around here's eighty percent of the peep eighty percent the class raise their hand and imagine if you all applied because somebody had asked him a question about risk like how much you know should i should i work this career ladder or should i try this thing that's like a little bit of a risk and so he's explaining he goes look around he goes imagine all of you applied to this job what was your resume look like all of you would just to give me a white piece of paper with black text you put your little name at the top and then you you'd put duke university and you put your stupid gpa and then you put your internships you put four internships and leave you'd make it sound like you're you change the world in those internships he goes there is nothing that differentiates you he goes you have a degree great that's table stakes like you know like oh great you went into a good school like so what so did everybody else that applies to this job he goes the only thing i can look at to even decide do i wanna meet this person is the bottom fifth of your resume the very bottom twenty percent or it says other and that's your chance to say other stuff you're into your interest your store is something you've done that's remarkable or or notable because goes that's the only way i'm gonna differentiate between all of you that are raising your hands right now because otherwise you're all students you all did an internship y'all all got a three point whatever gpa doesn't matter that you were on student counsel like no one cares and when he said he goes so i would take the next three years four years of your life after college and i would go stuff that other column because either you're gonna make it big doing something cool or even if all those fail when you go to apply to a job like mine i'm gonna have some reason to actually wanna talk to you and that was one of the most pro not in a profound things but like best pieces of career advice that i had ever heard and actually changed my i went started a goddamn sushi restaurant afterwards because i was like that's part of my other like either this works and i create the next chipotle or it's a great story from my other section because he's right like that ring that that was the truth was told to me and the commonality between a lot of these folks which i i think you have they play poker and they got really comfortable gambling so so that was the other thing that stood out he's looking around and in class everybody got a laptop open and he's looking around i'm like i could see he's like counting or something his thing measuring something and i asked i go are you i was what are you counting what are you what you doing he goes oh i'm looking at how many of you guys have max versus pcs here goes is because my entire year right now is i'm gonna make a long short bet i'm either gonna go long microsoft and short apple i'm gonna go long apple and short microsoft and he was like i was like what i don't even know which didn't even understand what he was talking about like a long short sort of spread trade and he was like yeah so like you know my entire like he's like i'm gonna make a ten million dollar better i'm gonna make whatever he sent some ridiculously big number because goes i just have to make one bet this year and i'm gonna bet ten or fifty million dollars on either apple or microsoft here and so i'm just trying to understand like what are you guys using and why why do you why do you pick this and i thought that was the coolest shit in the world like that was like you know he could've lit up a blunt in front of me and i wouldn't have thought he was cooler than what he just said that his entire year was to figure out should he be long apple or microsoft and he's was just gonna walk around the world and trying to figure this out he's gonna make a fifty million dollar bet on it and i was like that's so cool that's incredible and i'm sitting here playing like poker during class you know on the one two tables trying to make two hundred bucks and this guy was like gambling at a whole another level on one concentrated bet that shit was like very attractive to me i wonder which one he picked hopefully i think he had told us at the time i had asked him i was like so which one he he's like i think apple because and he had said some reasoning because of app apple it wasn't just like apple because it's cool it was something like he was looking in the education market to figure out like basically our age cohort what were we buying what were the schools like recommending and then what was like the he had done i forgot exactly what he was doing but he was like looking at basically like he thought that it was important to know what high schoolers and college kids in like young professionals were being told to buy and buying voluntarily and if there was like some difference there he had said something now this like fifteen years ago i don't remember the exact but i remember it being apple that he was leaning towards so that's my whole summary of hedge funds of the forty hour work week the sup interest me henry ford by the way i came up with a lot of good stuff invented kings ford charcoal that was his doing obviously four assembly he's yeah i got yeah also the assembly line the the guy super fascinating a very imperfect person did a lot of bad stuff too but very interesting what do you wanna do so i saw something to come come by that i think he'll find pretty fascinating have you heard about this company called law and crime speak that's all they were acquired recently they were acquired and so this is a media company that does a combination of like true crime plus just coverage of trials and yeah media company started by this guy dan abrams and they got acquired for a rumored nine figures and i was like wow that's a pretty impressive exit for like this kinda like crime niche media thing do you know about this guy dan abrams he got a like a interesting backstory no what'd he do so he's basically pretty prolific with these like meet niche media sites so two thousand and nine he launches something called gossip cop it's celebrity gossip blog and it gets to eight million monthly unique so he goes into celebrity gossip that's number one i go to tmz m z dot com every day home homepage a home pay every single day every day that's what that that's on my list of things that i check every morning that's part of your eight hour workday well you know you got like the same the news websites that you check i just wanna see what's going on i check no news websites but anyways this guy so then he creates ecosystem it was just a internet side for meme culture launches that in twenty ten he creates somebody called media which is basically power rankings for media personalities that one gets to fourteen million monthly unique still going today he launched something called style which is kinda like the same thing power rankings but for designers models writers like people in the style business holy shit he launched lift sports grid which is a sports news business that was acquired in twenty thirteen so he's creating a bunch of these all in this period of like two thousand and nine to two thousand and fifteen roughly he created all of those that i just mentioned he created one more in two thousand twelve called bra which was basically personality like chef personalities and i'm like this guy's is like hey that's just interesting like an interesting model but b like all of those are like the right niches like there's you know missionary versus mercenary people like he strikes me somebody who's mercenary where he's like oh these like these idiots care about like you know celebrity chefs alright here you go i'm gonna tell you every goddamn thing you need to know news information you know stories about these celebrity chefs oh these people love you know whatever whatever it is style you know media personalities or style or celebrity gossip great i'm gonna create i'm gonna go fulfill demand i got thirsty customers i'll go open up lemonade stands right next to them that's the that's the style of entrepreneurship that i get out of this guy and if you google this guy and you click images most people will recognize them do you recognize them i he's on msnbc he's on tv all the time yeah exactly and he's like really good looking he's got a great voice he's always commenting on like like one another guilty pleasure i watch cops all the time i freaking love cops that's my favorite show and he and there they have like a been off called live pd he's always on there saying like oh what she did she's about to get charged with x y and z right so this guy i know he's basically a media entrepreneur and he's on yeah like all the all the things that you mentioned he so abrams media i guess is the thing that's like launching all this stuff one of the things he launches so two thousand and sixteen he launches law and crime that's the one he just sold it's basically it starts you know legal news website then it's live streaming trials then they have a cable show they have a ot t show they have a youtube channel like got five million subscribers on youtube they cover every trial because like i'm like pretty knee deep in this sb spf trial right now can't look away from the car wreck you know like rarely does news get me but this one i mean i'm i'm i'm embraced in its own laughing ended it up yeah i am i just fully engulfed by this spf trial and so definitely there's like this like part of our brains that's just wired to tune into the stuff like i watched the depth versus heard netflix show i don't know if you saw that one really really well done like the netflix documentary on the the johnny depp trial yeah and you i mean you you watch these things and you just get fully en immersed in them so he you he sees that creates this and they raised five million bucks and have reportedly have sold for nine figures so over a hundred million dollars i don't know if that's exactly true three years ago the reported of revenue was like thirteen million top line and so you know who knows where where landed that maybe it's at twenty twenty five million now i'm not exactly sure but amazing exit and kind of amazing entrepreneurial career he also by the way launched during the time he was launching true cry a long crime he launched a christian tv streaming service called am tv which i bet is also like that's a i love that niche you know the which is crazy i mean the guy not christian at all so you that that's really i said do you know dan i looking ago you didn't know the guy you're like he's not christian well abrams is jewish last name and i'm at his i'm looking at his wikipedia and he's he's is says he's raising a jewish family it is his father has a wikipedia page and here okay you would so at the i'm looking point point with sam alright so this which is so what's a christian show so go to am tv dot com and so they're just live streaming like you know i don't know good old christian entertainment i don't i don't know what they're at it's not something that i normally watch but like you can watch basically like live biblical literacy you can watch like you know inside one of these churches the christ evangelical like church live you can view past sermon you can watch interviews and shows it's and this thing doesn't seem to have a ton of traffic on here but let me look at the youtube channel bet the youtube channels no it's pretty small too so that this christian exciting it looks like it hasn't hasn't quite taken off yeah but i i do like this niche i feel like this could be could be successful as well and then he here's another one called whiskey raiders a site that uses a proprietary algorithm to rate whiskey on a scale of fifty to a hundred yeah i mean this guy just goes into passion niches right so it's like passionate niche let right like this is what rem ramon did with a soap opera blog it's like wow you built and sold a soap opera blog for nine million dollars that's like incredible how you even have this idea and he was like well i created facebook pages around a bunch of niche topics wrestling politics soap opera and others and i saw that the fan page for the soap opera was like popping off it was like the second or third most most popular one and so then he created blog but he never seen a soap prop of his life and created a blog where they would write spoilers and and recap and stories about these sale opera had built up so much traffic was able to sell it for almost ten million dollars without ever raising any money it was incredible by the way the the what this guy is doing abrams dan abrams how he's launch he's prolific launching new stuff i think media is the best industry if your intention is to launch a lot of things someone kinda described it once where they told me that media company is basically a collection of different projects all under one brand whereas a software company typically is one product with added features and you're just scaling it the interesting thing about media is when you understand what types of things grabs people attention attention and how to look at certain numbers to understand and where there's an underserved nerd un underserved need and nerd standard yeah you can basically do that for any niche that like you like it it there's a it's a formula a lot different than software it's a a lot like that too you notice a some somebody who knocks it out of the park with one commerce thing they know that they could do this five times over it's just do to have the energy and the the desire to create an organization that's gonna launch multiple brands versus the one but it's so applicable to do exactly what you did for one but there's a problem with e commerce which is your cash is tied up in inventory with media you typically have more operating cash flow and so you have more money to deploy to some of these resources how many how much of your how much of your business so you have a business in in e commerce business how much of the money is in inventory a a significant amount without saying like particular numbers you probably thirty percent in inventory so that not not that's not horrible yeah that's not that's not horrible a lot of times it's worse so i would imagine you it can you can go wrong if you if you mess up if you miss forecast or you get a bunch of dead stock slow moving inventory yet you can that's can stockpile real quickly and can become a big issue for you but also it depends how you run it so in the same way that there's a hundred people now trying to create newsletter businesses and those hundred are not gonna have the same success that you did with the hustle that i had with no road and why is that right because this is how you operate and the same thing with e commerce you know with e commerce if you set up the right payment terms with your factory like for example like for us we sell inventory before we owe we have to pay money for yeah so that's great right negative cash conversion so once you get set up like that then you're you know you you're an idiot if you're if you're losing money or you're tying up too much money in inventory right because that's not necessary if you run it well it's when you make a mistake or think or the market turns that you know you you can get in trouble tell me about this guy tyler and what his post said i i i i think i know who he is yeah so i don't know ton about this guy this guy tyler h i've seen him on twitter he he's around on on twitter but he wrote a great blog blockbuster that i i i loved i don't know if you saw this but it was about sardines did you see this blog post about sardines so i didn't see it but i'm pulling it up now by the way the blog post it's gonna make a comeback i think dude i'm with you i read this one post and i was like i don't know who this tyler guy is but i like him i was like i like him and i respect him one one blog post could do that for you it's very hard for that to happen in like you know a single tweet or an instagram pip story or a tiktok short right like it's like it takes a little bit more one blog post you need more time yeah exactly i think podcast podcasts work well with it but podcast podcasts youtube videos if they're longer worked out it's basically the amount of time that you've taken from someone like that's how best writes suppose to and he's like he's said like i'm reading this book margin of safety and in it he writes about this famous bubble that happened that you probably haven't heard i guess it's not that famous but there was a bubble to happen that you probably are not aware of which was be sa bubble in southern california so i'm gonna read it out for you here you guys there's an old story about a market craze and sa trading where sa disappeared from their waters in monte and so the commodity traders started bidding up the price of a can of sardines into the price of of one can sardines sword and everybody's buying up these kansas sardines gains they're making a bunch of money flipping them and one day a buyer decides you know what i'm gonna treat myself to i'm gonna take one of these expensive kansas sardines i'm gonna pop it open and i'm gonna enjoy it bob's it open and immediately just become sick he's vomiting and he's like oh he's like tells the seller he's like hey man i bought these expensive sardines interview these are no good and the seller like you don't understand these these are not eating sardines these are trading sardines and he's like so then tyler draws the point he's like it feels like this is what's happened in the last few years with like tech company valuations he's like there was a butt like there was a game to be played you would invest in the seed round and then the and you're you know this company trying to use that money to grow it's not really profitable but don't worry about that right we're losing money but it's it's all good we're growing and we got this narrative and the narrative just needed to be sold to the next round investor the b you know the secret the better analogy for this is crypto well i don't think it's quite there is some crypto right but like there's the n stuff in crypto but the difference is but to get to the point of what he's saying so crypto is a different type of asset right the crypto is not a a a productive asset it's not a cash flowing asset so what he's talking about is like you would get these businesses that would go later in later stage and each round is getting bigger and bigger because everybody is basically as greater full theory right they're they're thinking well i don't care if this business actually generates a lot of free cash flow so i can just sell it to the next to the next buyer and they would do that they would get to the point where it goes public but now the music stopped and these companies have to be you know they're opening up the kansas sardines and realizing that oh shit these were not eating sardines these are trading sardines and so you see a company like hop go from four billion dollar valuation or two billion dollar valuation whatever it was to i think it's sold for like ten million bucks or twenty million bucks the other day like you know it's down whatever a hundred x from from its you peak valuation just two years ago and there's another company called better which is like a a mortgage company that's also like you know about to go bankrupt after a billion dollar valuation and this is gonna keep happening you're gonna see a bunch of you know they sort of dead unicorns and in crypto there was a a a version of this like n t's for example are you buying this because you love the art are you buying this because you think the price is gonna go up and up for ninety five percent of people ninety nine percent of the people it was i'm buying this is the price is gonna go up that works until the price stops going up and then at that point we all are sitting here holding these like you know these trading starting that we don't wanna eat the difference of course is that and the point the tyler's making is that what's in v now is eating sardines companies where if you couldn't sell it to the next but if you can't exit if you can't ipo if you can't go raise the next round well doesn't matter just pop it open and eat it right doesn't matter the company has profits it has cash flow so we can we don't need to flip this to the next person it produces enough cash flow and you know this sounds very basic to a lot of people like the whole idea of crypto is triggering to them or the idea of venture capital and these unprofitable tech companies that raise money at these crazy valuations that's just triggering to them and so you know for the cash flow kings out there this is like you know today is your day that now is your era you're you're you are now kinda like king of the hill at the moment and i wanted to bring this up with you because i feel like you have really never gotten into any of these trading games i have never seen you get swept up in angel investing where you're like yeah this this company today it's worth ten million even though it's got no product and no revenue but it doesn't matter because the raise an a at fifty billion i'll be marked up five and then it will raise a b at a hundred and twenty million i'll be marked up ten x or whatever i've never seen you fall into that one or crypto really any of these trading games you seem to be a guy who always goes into eating sardines games whereas i've dabble in both and made money and lost money in in sort of both i'm curious what your reaction is to this yeah so a bunch the first thing is the reason i've never got into that is i think people default to being too optimistic about particular businesses you know what's interesting is one of the very one of the very first signs or pieces of writing that humans have ever discovered and we're talking caveman men era they wrote on the on the they wrote on the cave that's the generation after them is lazy and they just don't care and that's like a common theme every generation says the late the one after them is lazy they just don't care there whatever yeah their music sucks it's like the same thing over and over again and you said something about we're caught up in this at the moment my philosophy is we have always been caught up in that human nature doesn't change we have been the same for almost forever and the way that we act today is the way we have always reacted and so when i see new things i think this isn't new this has been here at many many many many times and my goal is to find out what has been here for hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years and what or thousands of years and that is where i choose to place my time in for example in this blog post she he quotes sarah gal who says who's like a famous investor and apparently one of her portfolio companies said sarah tell all the founders their jobs to generate cash flow because no one has ever told me that and that's crazy but that's a common thing yep and i was i'm taking this do not to read a balance sheet or cash flow statement or prop p and l yes but you know of course there's there's levels to that game so i i i i don't really know how to read it and so i'm taking my i intent to take a course at like i i wanna do like one of these executive nba classes like one of these fancy ones so before i even did this i bought this course called the four day mba when this guy's teaching me how to read a balance sheet and his whole course is summarized in a very simple way and it's basically the point of cash is to generate or just to buy buy stuff that you can then sell to create profit which that profit can turn into cash flow and a lot of times people focus on profit but profit is a is a hypothesis cash is a fact and it took me to take that course to realize and get back to basics of like wait everything is about creating cash flow yeah and he uses this wonderful example of en ron he's like check this out look at this balance sheet they're generating lots profit lots of profit goldman morgan stanley they're all saying buy this company buy this company they're stocks p and l the p and l will show you the profit no that's the issue is profit isn't important operating cash flow is on paper they were making lots of profit the problem is is that it was all they weren't like they they weren't actually making profit or they were rather but they weren't creating operating cash flow the vast majority of their cash came from financing activities it a raising more money and this is why there's a book called the smartest guys in the room because apparently the everyone was like they'll be fine they're the smartest guys guy the room and you see these trends today with crypto with web three now with ai before that social media where the smartest guys in the room say it's okay that they're not making profit it's okay if they're not making cash it's okay that this evaluation is huge but that's like just a common problem that we see over and over and over again and so i get suspicious of all of those things because i read a lot of history and you see patterns and this is a very common thing we have thought this way from the beginning yeah but so the story of the tech industry like vent the story of all the the the startup up industry silicon valley is that that actually was correct like you're saying it like what social media the story was these companies you know fail most fail of course of course some work but you that's what it i think what it what it is the real the real lesson is you have to know what game you're playing so for example correct i i agree when you're playing the silicon valley game the silicon valley game is most of these companies are gonna fail or be sort of inc to your returns the only thing that matters when you're doing you know venture capital or or doing tech investing is every year there's like twenty maybe thirty companies that matter did you get into them how many of those did you get into is it zero is it one is it two is the three the issue though is that people put too large of a percentage of their net worth into these things that's where it becomes a huge problem and a lot of people do that i don't think that's i think most people are not even invested in startups ups the average person no i like zero but get startups out of this example you could crypto you could i mean a lot of people have gone broke because of it and at the the underlying asset still does not have like a repeatable way to deliver cash flows and that's that's a that's the difference you know there are different types of assets so for example you could buy a watch or you buy art they're never gonna produce cash flow you can buy gold bars they're never gonna produce cash flow there's never certain types of our certain rolex roll rolex have grown they're not they're non productive well but they are collectible but there is a history of hundreds a hundred years fifty years of repeat of people wanting to purchase it of course of not as much that not not as much with crypto yeah and of course and of course that the of of course you don't get the same same upside because it's sort of a you know that game is played out that it's more efficient market versus crypto collectible came out so here's a new new version of collectible and in this one you could be jack butcher and you could make millions of millions of dollars because you understood that crypto collectible are gonna be a thing or you could have come in at the wrong time or put the wrong percentage and of course you could make money and lose money in any of these but the idea is you have to know what game you're playing if you're playing the game of crypto or investing in gold or investing in art or investing in watches you are not playing the same game as somebody's investing in cash flowing businesses if you're investing in startups you're not playing the same game as somebody's investing in cash flow business so i think the important thing is you have to know which game are you've been playing and then what are the rules and top of that game so for example with venture investing the mindset is actually i'm gonna lose money eight out of ten times here and then if you go read warren buffett you're like oh this guy's the greatest investor of all time let me learn something about that that i can apply to angel investing i warren buffett first rule is don't lose money his second rule don't forget rule number one if you use warren buffett rule you could never be peter till if you use peter teal rules you can never be warren buffett right like you know these are they're different games and you you have to know the rules of that game in order to play it what i think is interesting is that at different times the at different times each game might have a sort of like hot season there's a there's a there is a there are these like windows where certain games are more ripe or more more attractive more lucrative to play but my point is us why i don't do this type of stuff is i get nervous about many of those games because i believe that for example before startups in the early nineteen hundreds there was car companies do you know how many car companies existed in the nineteen twenties and nineteen thirties tons tons most all of them went bankrupt except for like five there was tons of car companies and it was the exact same thing as tech companies today do and so i'm wary of those types of games where i i fall a little bit more into the warren buffett thing where i'd rather have steady but smaller returns as opposed to big lumpy jumps i do get big lumpy jumps but i do those in things with things that i can control which is starting and selling companies i just prefer not to do it in things that i don't have control in yeah and typically people you don't actually play the warren buffet game you play the index investing you know basically i don't try to make my money on the investments i try to be sort of safe and conservative with my investments because i'm gonna be aggressive and risky with entrepreneurship yeah which is not what warren buffett does he does he doesn't start companies he buys companies in and that warren buffett in the sense of try not to like i'll try not to lose money and i will do i'll will take a somewhat more conservative approach than many of my peers yes yes yes the start game is a the start of investing game is a chasing and waiting game which is a very rate of strange combo you're trying to chase to find these one of these breakouts that are gonna become the one of the twenty companies that mattered this year not the two thousand that didn't matter and then you have to play a waiting game to let those seeds kinda of bloom over the next you know seven to ten years a month ago you went to brian johnson's house so i wanna ask you about that or do you wanna save it for friday but you can do it let's it well so brian johnson the the the crazy guy who i love who claims he'll or he's trying not to die by decreasing his age you went to his house you interviewed him that's going live soon how was it was there any like spectacular learnings from him yeah going to this house is kind of remarkable so big house not huge but like nice definitely a nice place walk in and actually me the son first so i see a son his son who's obviously on instagram he's on the same protocol as his dad pretty much yeah rip but he's like twenty like whatever he's like twenty years old older nineteen years old or something like that and so he's like i think he's in college or going call something like that he he's super ripped super kind guy and you know i was like so like what's it like to be you know eat lunch with your friends and you've got the green sludge and they're you know they're eating not just or whatever hey he's like yeah it's cool it's tonight i don't care you know i'm doing what i wanna do he's like you know the the independent minded ness that it takes to live a lifestyle brian johnson so you could see like you know the from as even this as a parent how that like shapes your kids to be a little bit different and you're like emotionally healthy he was like you know i he's like i was what do you think would be great out of this interview with him and he was like you i hope you clear like some of the misconceptions like there's a bunch of misconceptions as to why he's doing this and if people understood why he's actually doing this they would feel a lot differently about what he's doing and and so you know just i enjoyed that got a tour of his house showed you show me where he works out how he where he eats he opened up his fridge and literally i was like let's see what's sit here he opens up his fridge and there's literally nothing in the fridge is like is absolutely nothing the razors like one bottle of red wine on the side and he's lie that he's like oh yeah he like opens up his free he of his freezer and there's like some medicine in i'm like oh what's that for it he's like oh that's like this drug that they give to people with leukemia but i just take it proactively i looks like that great oh cool you know you're trying to find rapport when you go to someone's house and i was like so i wear this fitbit i'm cool i'm in a tracking too right like yeah i worked out sometimes i eat sometimes i eat chips you know like you know he's like wow it's a literally like meeting a a bit of an alien person because there his lifestyle and his discipline and his values and his priorities are just very very different than mine but also very cool very inspiring he's very a very cool guy so he was like when you go to someone's house you meet somebody in their off camera within three minutes you get a vibe of like what's this person's vibe some people will give you a hardcore fuck off vibe some people are kinda like yeah let's get this done you know vibe and he was totally different he was very kind very curious you know you know it would felt like you know respectful very very respectful very nice what was he curious about you well first he was just like thankful he was like oh yeah the first episode we did was a lot of fun the one that we had him on as long as time we go and he's like that really kind of like you know helps get the word out there got a bunch of good messages from it and that led to more good things so i think first thing was like kinda like thanks for you thank you thanks for doing yeah that was the first thing the second thing was like you know how do you react to this he's like so i'm curious like what do you think of this and is this something you would do and how can i make this more approachable and like what do you find you know he was like almost like doing a bit of research in a way to like versus just being a note at all like i already know the answer i have the answer you guys are all idiots for not following you know versus having an open mind on on you know what's sun you know our person is not in the protocol what's a reaction to this and did he have help running around his house like doctors and just she's like kinda like number two person she like helps do a bunch of things but not like it's not like house help that's like case like you know she's like no i meant like nurses oh there was no doctors or nurses there when i was there we went up to like his room where he's got like all the heavy machinery to like measure your skin and then measure your eyes and measure your ears and all that stuff and i was like i was so you're really measuring like every organ separately like of course you know skin is the largest organ in your body it needs to be healthy and like you know my eyes are important that's how i see it and i'm like what would me say it like that yeah sure i was like so what's the weak link and he's like left ear or like know what one right left here i remember he's and i was like he's like i have the ear of like a seventy year old and i know why he goes from shooting he's like you know i used to whatever he's like one year is down but the other year is exposed and so he's like when i would shoot that loud gunshot that i used to do like you know with some frequency it messed up by ear it is very hard to rejuvenate or recovery it ear and he's like say you know this goddamn thing is is the weak link did you change anything in your life after seeing him i tried his protocol for about twenty days so i away yeah so i ate the i told my chef i like hey this is the new thing i won't i would like some sludge for lunch and then i want some nutty pudding and and i tried to buy i didn't do all of his supplements that's the one thing i didn't do because to do in supplements you need like sixty five things and i couldn't even source online i like how the hell do you do this and did you feel good i mean it definitely felt light lighter like lighter weight you can literally feel your body has like less baggage on it yeah yeah when you're doing it however i i really d tested that like the main meal the like kinda lentils and green stuff and the one i had the one i when i the recipe did not taste like the one he had his his house so i think he's got like new versions of the recipe that are better tasting that's so fast i'm seeing a lot of there's a whole subreddit of people saying they're living his life well there's a there's a group of people like living his light that are doing this so they hold what's called tea parties which is a testosterone party so you it's a bunch of guys they get together they have a tea party where you get tested and you get your testosterone levels and you find out you know do you need to be taken testosterone or what and then that same guy has created a meal delivery service called the blueprint delivery service which is takes brian johnson a meal plan and makes it easy to do because again that's that's honestly the hardest part of the whole thing it's like it's not easy to just do it and there's like it's hard enough to stick to something it's if you add a bunch of friction of making it hard to even do that's that's pretty so i think it's great that somebody's doing that i think that's honestly a good business idea because when i met with this guy i was like oh between the first time we talked to you and now he is way more famous and then between now and where he's gonna be in like sort of three years you could tell this guy is just gonna become one of the most well known people in this world like i think that his story is gonna be one of those most well known people in this world because he is essentially donating his body to science while he's still alive which is like it's a crazy thought and he said this during the interview he goes a bet against me is a bet against ai and i probably wouldn't bet against ai and i go what ai what do you mean he goes well i've basically handed over my body and the decisions i make for my health to whatever the technology tells me is optimal and so if you think this is not gonna work you're basically saying that science and technology is not gonna make better decisions than the average human like no way of course it's gonna make better decisions and i'm just gonna do what the data tells me what the algorithm will tell me to do and he's like long term that's ai and he goes a bet against me a bet against ai and then he so get a crazy thing by the way and this is in the interview and i don't know how people are gonna receive this because it's like kind of intense the interview is a bit intense he's like he's basically like i'm competing with jesus and he doesn't say that but he keeps comparing himself to jesus and i'm like that's kind of bla mess so what what do you mean and he's like well here's the thing he's like i was told because he grew up pretty like a very religious like upbringing he goes i was told do x y z and then you'll die and then after you die you go to heaven i have a different offer for you do x y z and don't die and he's like that's my whole thing don't die if you're against me you're on team death if if you're with me it's team don't die it's like that's how simple he's bold it down to and i'm like well you're still gonna die like you the current thing is you're aging slower but you're still aging and that's where he was like correct that's currently what's happened yeah for now the better the tech gets the better the ai gets the more i'm able to experiment the closer i get to just slowing down the point the the speed of aging to the point where i'm not gonna die one of the takeaways i have is what he has done it's significant but you can do a version of this where you dedicate your life or it's just six months to something and like some crazy experiment and talking about it and you could build a career like another example of this this is that's way more attainable is you know the car diet is a thing right now only you know be one of these guys that only eats meat for six months that's challenging but it's not that challenging and you could build a career out of that and that is like really interesting so he's he's he's spent a lot of money i think he says he spends two million or a million dollars a year that's out of out of this world for just about everyone but there are other experiments that you can do and it becomes your identity and you can build a career about around that ferris that a little bit with the four hour body where he tried things that weren't crazy but he did a really good job of explaining it and making that part of his identity and he built a really great career around it and i think that's really fascinating that that's a takeaway i have which is tim can you dedicate six months to something and talk about it and will that actually change your life for like for the purpose of actually talking about it you know what i mean yeah i i think that's totally true and one of the the one of the cynical ways to look at brian johnson is he just did one of the greatest pre launch marketing campaigns of all time because now he's rolling out his olive oil and he's launching his like you know blueprint like supplement pack or whatever ability for anybody to follow his protocol simply i don't think that's i don't think that's that's i don't think that's true at all the guy's way too rich to like become an olive oil salesman you know like i doubt he's got eight hundred million dollars or whatever like you know he sold his last company for eight hundred million dollars i don't think that he's doing this to launch a new supplement brand i don't think that was his attention at all i genuinely believe that he needed some purpose in his life and he decided he found purpose and meaning in doing this and now he's trying to like just do it at level twelve so he's like cool you know for most people they can they can find some purpose and feel good in exercise or taking care of themselves he just turned that dial up to level twelve and that's what i see at him well that's awesome and you know it's you don't wanna necessarily wanna also be at level twelve because the wheel start to come off when you're at level twelve and it's pretty intense but it's cool it's very cool that there are people who live at level twelve there's i'm glad that michael phelps exists i am glad that elon musk exists i am glad that brian johnson exists so but you can see what level twelve looks like and then you dial that down to whatever makes sense for you but you can take inspiration you you at least know what level twelve is what i'd say about those people as i say i know two things are two things for sure i'm i love that they exist and i'm not them right that that's what i know well that's sick i'm excited to see the episode and i guess we'll end there that's the pod i feel like got rude wear i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like the days off on a road less travel never looking back but