I built a $50M AI app in high school (and just sold it for...)

zach we gotta set the table zach how old are you i'm nineteen and you just sold your company you just hold your company for how much money zach yeah i feel like i could rule the world i know i could be what i want to on from at all in it like a day's old on a road less travel alright what's up bad zach you're here nineteen years old the last time you called on this podcast you were in high school you i think it were like between third and fourth period or on lunch break and you did a podcast recording with us in front of i don't know a quarter million people or something like that and now we fast forward don't know year and change later you just sold your company you just sold your company for how much money act i can't reveal how much we sold for unfortunately but i could tell you that right before selling we finished twenty twenty five to having done thirty million dollars in revenue and now the company's grown in january we just did five point seven million in revenue five point seven million in january so if you if you were to multiply by twelve and say like what we could do this year you're talking about like a you know fifty million plus revenue company but thirty million dollars last year dude that's amazing like you know just the way you say it you say it's so calmly and like a grown up but like can we just take a second sam just to be amazed and just give the some some props like that is incredible you're a teenager who built an app with your friends you got it to thirty million in in annual revenue and sold your company just now to to my fitness pal and last time we talked to you you are on like i think literally your lunch break and you're in high school i know that you were applying to college and on the podcast you're like saying i think i'm gonna go to college are you are you like on your lunch break at college now is that where you are are you to dorm i mean i'm not gonna lie i missed i've missed like many classes this semester i i'm at the university of miami i i'm a freshman but yeah okay so you're freshman at miami and i believe by the way i remember being outraged on twitter by this i think i was i was one of your your defenders here where you applied a bunch of college you wanted to go to and you got rejected which is insane to be a teenager who's got a app that's doing tens of millions in revenue in the college admissions office was like we didn't like your essay or whatever what are your sat score doesn't show that you're exceptional obviously were exceptional could you tell that story of a the maybe facing a little bit of rejection and how that felt yeah i mean right after the podcast that we did last time yeah i was submitting everything i applied to every single ivy league school stanford a few other stanford was my top choice that i wanted to get into and just one by one rejection rejection rejection rejection and i mean i tweeted about it because i had a four point o on weighted gpa at the time i applied my company was doing like i think fifteen million a year when i applied and i had on paper what most people need to get in but i was just rejected from everywhere which i felt it was pretty surprising why do you think that was do you know there's no way to know really it's a black box but do you have a yeah suspicious there's no way to know well post kinda went viral did anything happen from that did anybody reach out yeah to be honest it was actually great that like it might have been better that i got rejected from colleges then got into any because i posted it got like forty million views on twitter and i had a ton of really cool people like the mayor of miami texted me afterwards and we actually met up that's part of the reason even decided to go to yum miami was the support from him and a bunch of other cool people like alex o hen and a bunch of others that had like reached out to support me after that that's awesome yeah you kinda needed that nobody wants a team that's too perfect and successful you kinda needed a little bit of like a build a little bit of rejection in the backstory so i i think in the end it's it's a good thing yeah but i didn't get any sympathy from the post it was just like all mad at me yeah i don't think that you deserve sympathy i don't think you deserve it i i think i think i think it's it things have worked out as they should are you did the university of miami or any did they ask you for donation already the first freshman to have a library that he donate no seriously because they're they want they're they have really good processes for identifying whales and reaching out of people yeah you you actually should hire one of them build they'll kinda help your onboarding flow they those universally donation people are are exceptional what's your dating life like like when you're in college in your nineteen and you just sell an app for a hundred million dollars and even before that you own an app that is doing tens of millions in revenue are you by yourself all the time working or are you able to have fun and is is the world's easiest pickup line actually successful for you so i'd say the first semester i had way too much fun i was doing too many things we had thrown a bunch of parties me and a couple of my other entrepreneurial friends who were living in miami with me at the time we all moved into this house together and so every like every couple weeks we'd throw a house party and i'm not gonna lie it was definitely like i had a lot of aura throwing these parties and the word got out in the college at this is like the cal they called me the cali eye guy or calorie boy it are like my nickname that's that's amazing calorie boy okay so by the way we didn't say what your app is so your app cal ai is basically a app on your phone where you could take a picture of the meals that you're eating and it kinda uses ai to track and log your calories so you don't have to type in that you had six ounces of chicken breast with the skin or whatever you know you don't have to do all that logging you just take the picture and it does the thing and so that's what you guys had built and for those who haven't seen the first step episode so give just the quick origin story you did the full one before but just do a quick one here sure so i started programming when i was seven years old i was obsessed with video games and i wanted to learn how to make my own so started building by the time i was a freshman in high school i built my first company i built an unblock gaming website that led students play games in school unblock it was actually kind of accidental that i stumbled into turning it into a real company first i just built it for my friends at school but it's spread really quickly and it grew to five million users through mostly me just making tiktok about it it was generating sixty thousand dollars a year by putting banner ads on the website and then when i was sixteen i sold it for one hundred thousand dollars after that i got into the app space started building a few small projects and then ka is really the one that i went all in on and it really took off it exceeded all expectations alright guys here's the thing about side hustle everyone wants one but most people over think about it and they never actually launch anything but because of ai you can go from my idea to your first sale in only seven days my old company the hustle they just dropped an ai side hustle crash course they look at stuff that we said and they broke it all down into simple bite sized steps which means you're gonna get a guide that gives you everything you need to launch a side hustle without any of the guess work so you can get it right now you can scan the qr code or click the link in the description now back to the show and you just i mean you're not like you you start programming early but like you're not albert einstein out here you're you're you got mark z read on prodigy in terms of coding correct like what makes you unique it seems like was the blend of good enough at building and then you know good enough or great at marketing and the and just being an entrepreneur and the combination is what's important i think that's important to call out because i remember when i was on the come up i sort of had this misconception that i needed to be some i needed to be some sort of nine hundred iq giga brain in order to enter a space and what i didn't really realize was that you know if you just kind of even if you know nothing today if you just give it six months of full focus you'll be you'll be good enough to be dangerous and that's kinda all you need at that one of the skills then you just gotta stack to others and it's the combination of the skills that's really valuable not having to be world class at any one thing is that was that your experience was it different yeah i would definitely agree with you i mean especially now like coding is just becoming easier and easier with ai tools and i'd say my skills now are being under being able to code has really helped me understand how to lead a team like i always think that the most important thing is the p principle learn the twenty percent that gets you the eighty percent of results and that's what's necessary to actually hire someone that's smarter than you and being able to manage the team so i've i've pretty much done that in all of these different areas and it's allowed me to build great people around me and put in the systems i think you're biggest skills is your audacity i think that what sean left out was maybe the most like one of the more interesting things is that like when you were starting to build i think you made a tweet or a video then you said in the next three years i think you were fifteen i'm gonna have an app that does fifty or hundred million in revenue you said some audacious thing and then i think you even tweeted that out and so there's this like interesting combination of audacity to think that somehow you a young kid are good enough to like figure this out and then also the ten and iq and get after it this to make it happen we found that video view in your kitchen basically when you're i don't know thirteen fourteen years old saying i will do this maddie sort of speaking the words into existence yeah i mean it was honestly pretty crazy like looking back that i did that my plan was that i was gonna make a youtube series out of it but i just made that first video saying that i was gonna make a million dollars before graduating high school that was my goal and i always i i kind from a young age i always believed in my heart i was going to do it i just i wanted it so badly that i needed it to be true and i think self belief has gotten me so far because it helped me get over so many part points of life where i could've have just said like like if no one like i have to go to college before i'm able to do this like i have to take a class i to get a degree like no way i could do it before but now i always believe like i can do it i tend to do i to add the year for a week i wanna make a million dollars before i graduate high school per a week so so you said like i always had that but i'm gonna i'm gonna question that for a sec because i you know maybe some of it you're born with maybe some of it you just kind of came out of nowhere this is just or natural aura us as you would say but but me and sam we've both been on our our little motivational arc right like i was a big tony robbins guy went to the seminars i used to listen to the audio tapes and go for walks and he had this like walking series where you would walk hey he'd be like alright every four steps you're gonna say this you're gonna believe this i'm gonna ask you this question whatever comes to your mind and you know i got tony robbins in my ear yeah and sam i'm sure you had a similar sort of self brainwashing where you worked on it you practiced the muscle self belief i'm curious zach i don't know you very but i'm curious did you work on the muscle of self belief in any way let's honestly a great question i of course i had doubt like in my head i was like like i said like this is a crazy goal can i actually do this and i remember there's this one story that or like when i was really young i was in the car with my mom and i asked her like mom if i'm rich when i'm older i wanna do this i said something along those lines and then i was like wait and i changed it i was when i'm rich i'm gonna do this and i think i've been always conscious about like shifting my language to a when not an if even though i of course i had doubts i was like can i really do this but yeah i had those doubts and the motivation arc dude i used to be obsessed with motivational content i still am but not as much but especially it was like the year before i started cal i curated my tiktok for you pitch i would only interact with videos of motivational speakers and so my entire feed was just david go and yelling if you get back to it get back to her but all these other people and that's actually why i started my first app which was a motivational alarm clock where you could choose people basically i identified by watching these tiktok everyone in the comments was like this got me so pumped up i wanna make this my alarm clock how can i do that and there was no way to really easily do that so that i was like shit i wanna build an app because i want this for myself too and all these people clearly want it as well that lets you set these motivational sounds as your alarm and so that was the idea behind grind clock nine clock grind and thus grind clock was born so so zach did i use that out by the way so you're rich what how do you feel when did the when did the wire here it's march fourth wednesday when is i think you announced this a few days ago how's it feel when did the wire we announced it on monday but the sale actually took place in december we couldn't speak about it until now and so the wire hit hit the same day it closed and honestly like i'm just gonna be real the excitement hit me like when they first made the offer like over the phone but then i was like wait but it didn't happen yet we don't have anything signed so quell the excitement quell excitement and then it never fell as good as that did and how long did the process take and was it miserable or was it alright was it smooth it was honestly much faster than it would normally be and some of that was like the timing like part of the reason we didn't share anything until now is because peak season is january and february and so we didn't want to really like influence such things yeah so so real quick okay so let's tell the story about the acquisition and one of the reasons i wanna do this is because the acquisition the exit part of of for any entrepreneur is such a huge deal right it's literally it's probably the biggest deal you'll ever make in your life most people don't really talk about how it goes down they don't talk about how it feels that are talking about what they did they don't talk about the ups the downs the techniques that actually really made a difference right before we started this podcast you were mentioning that you had watched i made this video a long time we're actually for sam's conference i was you sam you were like when wanna come speak and i was like yeah i gave a talk called how to sell a failing company now your company wasn't fair but mine i would say was meaning it wasn't achieving the goal i had for it and there wasn't like you know just huge companies knocking at the door every day offering me briefcase full of cash i had to sell the company i didn't get bought just passively and i felt like every story i never heard about somebody selling was everybody was knocking on our door they wanted us and we picked and i was like well that shit that ain't me and so i had to run a process and essentially create an auction and it had a good outcome but nobody really talking i think the line sean is like a bunch of silicon valley like big shots say companies are bought not sold and i remember hearing that and i'm like oh so people aren't holler at me all the time then i'm a loser and then the reality is that's not the reality that is the reality maybe for some people but for other people that ain't in it wasn't it for me i had to figure out how to sell it and i shared some of the lessons so you were saying real quick that you you would watch that that was you know somewhat helpful for you but can we talk about that that's why i wanna talk about the acquisition because i feel like it makes a huge difference founders get very few reps you can very give a you few chances to practice doing it so it's kinda useful to hear stories of how it all went down yeah great point honestly on that because like it going into this it was my first time with everything so right it was honestly scary and stressful and i kept overthinking things but hearing stories was helpful but by the way you sold to a company that's owned by private equity so it's your first time it's there you know they're basically you know the their pros just like sitting down with magnus carlson for your first game right this is what they do whereas this is your first time doing it yeah yeah a hundred percent the process honestly started back in may of twenty twenty five it was right before i was like a few months before going to college and so i kind of was thinking like you know what maybe there's a world where i can be a normal college student and get a normal freshman experience where don't need to worry about a company at the same time so let's just let me just talk to some people and see what they're feeling see if they're interested so i i kind of ran a sales cycle at that point i made a list of the ten companies that i felt were made the most sense and out of all of them we were extremely undervalued to be honest and we start explain the details you make the list great that what you do you email them call them you how how do you hey just wanted to see if you maybe will wanna do something right how'd you do corp dev who who'd you talk to and and how'd you talk to so i was recommended that or i heard somewhere it's you lose leverage if you're just cold outreach reaching so i made i tried to get people that i knew to make warm intros kind of saying something along the lines of like hey i think you guys should meet this is a cool company i just thought of this like as if it was his idea right not was me asking him and so he made all those intros got on calls with a lot of the ceos of these companies and a lot of them immediately just kind of shut it down like oh nice meeting you but we're not interested some even in the email we're like cool company we're not interested but then a few we they were interested we did a few calls just met some of the team and honestly i was surprised that like only after a couple meetings it was like very quick to get an offer it wasn't like i imagine it would be like i don't know talking to the team getting to know them for a long time but like you could just they just some of them it's different for everyone but like a few of the people we were talking to there like this is the information we wanna know k hop on two calls with the team okay like this is you know a number what do you think right and you said the offers that the first round were low what were you did you just have crazy expectations was it was it were they not actually loaded you crazy expectations or were they actually loads like you know you know 1x x revenue or something i'm like what were they offering basically at that time whether you thought they were too low less than we would make in a year in in in profit or revenue it was like about what we would make in a year in profit okay wow so what your one x profit type of thing so did you just politely turn them down would you say and by the way did that ignite some rage in you did you get a little fuel from that well after that i guess we did down i i politely did turn them down and after that i was kind of like wait is my company just not sell and then i was looking at i was like wait wait walter just declared bankruptcy all of these companies like how much money do they really have in the bank are we just not going to be able to sell is this just gonna be a cash flowing business forever and i kind of spread to accept that idea in my head that we are just going to be a cash flow company and like actually started to move some things in place like looking for a potential ceo to bring on so like i could step away and move on to something else and so like the next few months that's really what i believed and i think what changed was i spoke to another founder who sold this company and he told me that will work for him he basically explained how bankers work m and a bankers you go to them they create a list of all these companies you've never even heard of before and like these companies that are about to go public they just wanna roll up all these smaller companies into them and they're willing to give you actually fair market value for your company anytime you want it dude your experience is a very similar to mine except your tenure years younger and but i think it's a i think it's a similar experience to many entrepreneurs which is you build a company you have these huge aspirations of selling it and i've talked to so many people have done this you go through your first process massive let down you think oh this company like they low ball the offer and it's like pry it's equity at a privately held company that's valued so it's basically worth nothing then you go to through this process where you got you got your hopes up then you're defeated you're defeated for ten days and then you're like alright i have to go back to work and like maybe i'm just gonna own this for forever so i might as well just like build the company to last forever forever then months later years later sometime later then you get the second round you care a little bit less and your company is a little bit better because you just assumed it's gonna last longer and it's exactly like dating the second you don't wanna date someone or you don't really care they start coming to you and so that's the this is like the exact same process i've gone through i have probably five to ten friends who have gone through this exact same emotional process and and and by the way yours was actually faster i think you said like it was like a low stress you kind of applied it was like oh it went pretty smoothly it didn't feel smooth if i had to guess going through this i felt kind of defeating and this is the exact same process except oftentimes that's like a five year process yeah like that's exactly what happened and i i just resonated with that fact and then actually and this goes into sean what i was saying before so then the second time so i was just i was set on building the company until like a long term enduring business gonna bootstrap whatever like let's just figure out how we make it endure long long term could you just make you're making a potential buyer or like we get the knees by saying those things yeah so on that no we were thinking like okay we really want this company to last we probably want to think about making it freemium because any company that's been around for ten years that's like really big in the app space that i could think of they're all freemium so that's what we started to work towards and you know who's really good at freemium my fin is pal so i wanted to hop on a call with their ceo and squeeze whatever information about freemium i could out of him pitch picture it as like catching up but just try to ask him questions about freemium reached out got on a call and they did not answer a single question about freemium and it makes sense i mean like it would definitely be not in their interest at all to help us but yeah like they they actually spun the conversation from talking about that too okay maybe something else makes sense maybe the companies maybe a partnership or whatever and that's how things really started that's so that's awesome great there's a moment that in ben h with his book the hard thing about the hard things he talked about a few like kind of key moments that happened it feels like when it's happening in your company it's unique to you then you read these books and you realize oh shit every company goes through these moments and so one of them he calls like the we phone moment which is the we're f it's over and it's like you he you'll hit a moment where you feel like you're just screwed and yeah but that's common and the what you realize is actually pretty high survival rate from that moment when you feel like there's no survival another one i would say is that no one's coming to save us moment and that's not from ben that's but just from this conversation is all three of us basically had it's like oh so i guess we're not just gonna get a magical offer and this all just gonna work out like i guess i have to actually make this company work for me and there's no there's nobody come to save us alright cool and that actually just really strengthens your resolve and so some of these things that seem bad in the moment are actually exactly the sort of dose of medicine that a founder needs when it happens yeah today's episode is brought you by hubs did you know that most businesses only use twenty percent of their data that's like reading a book but then tearing out four fifth to the pages the point is you miss a lot and unless you're using hubspot the customer platform that gives you access to the data you need to grow your business the insights that are crafted emails call logs transcripts all that unstructured data makes all the difference because when you know more you grow more and so if you wanna read the whole book instead of just reading part of it visit hubspot dot com zach you talked about you so you then the conversation picked up can you give us like you know zach acquisition corner here real quick like what do you think if you're now advising the next to year the next nineteen year old kid going through acquisition talks what are sort of the do's and don'ts of how to do how to how to have that conversation literally like do you throw out a number do they how do you react how do you position yourself or present yourself well meeting in person versus doing over the you know give us some things that you felt you learned out of this experience yeah so like sam said very similar to girls like you basically want to play hard to get kind of you don't wanna you don't wanna be too interested you don't also not wanna be you don't not wanna be interested at the same time so it's kind of like the push and pull it's like that what i what i describe it as is you could let them know you're interested but you let them know also know that regardless if they get on board or not i'm going some places exactly yeah exactly that's a great way to put it what helped me the most was that i had a friend i actually had a couple people that have been through acquisitions who were i was constantly getting on the phone with them and they were giving me advice throughout the whole process so if you're trying to sell your company in you know someone that's that has gone through an acquisition just having them help you through this i think it's super valuable just to talk through things like like you said things are very similar along any company even if you think they're not so like they've seen things that i'm going through right now and they would give me the right things to say you sean or have you guys zach have you seen hunting you've sean of course and there's this one scene where ben a he's like talking to matt damon who doesn't wanna go work for the nsa and get this fancy job and ben a is like no f that you're not doing it for you you're doing it for me you're doing it because my favorite part of the day is that second when i hon the horn to pick you up to go to our construction job i hope that you don't come to the car because you're off doing something amazing and fancy you owe it to me and when zach was talking about he was like i just i just wanna go to college and have a normal experience there's like all these people that are like no after that you go build this company and you do that for me you're not doing it for you you that's how i feel what i hear he's like he has everything that you know it played to my twenties thirties that i would begged to have you headed at eighteen it's so funny here hearing and you go to this experience because i remember when we were talking to you before you're like i wanna go to college i wanna do this and you're the you're the man you're the best but in our head i imagine bo shawn and i were like but you have this gift you're blowing it yeah i think actually i think you did what we told you which was like go for the social life but you know this is your your path this is what you're did at this is what you should do like don't worry about the class side of thing did you feel when you're were in college like you have two different lives like were they separate do the professors all know what the hell's going on do they did they put some respect on that name did the other kids know what's going on or did you just sort of have this dual life where you're trying to be a normal student and they treat you like a normal student they don't really know what's going on it was a pretty dual life there were times when it was close together so as i mentioned i was living in a house with a bunch of my entrepreneur friends and so when we're throwing parties it was like all the entrepreneurs and then a bunch of college kids and like we would invite our other entrepreneurs friends too so like the actual going out aspect that was very cohesive i would say which was really interesting actually i use like while this thing to experience zach i get a question for you you you had what is i think pretty normal for a teenager at college student you had a little douche bag arc so you you you go and you you you're doing this amazing thing that you come on the pod you're this ups outstanding guy or this he's self belief work hard build this app doing well with his friends trying to be a good student good good grades all that good stuff and then you're like you launch a course you released a video where you're standing on lambert you're hump a lamborghini throwing money in the air and we were like oh what is this where'd did he go he went he went entertained on us what happened can you can we talk about the the douche bag arc yeah yeah yeah so the guys i started the house with the entrepreneurs we kind of decided at first the idea was let's just get a house live together to beautiful city it's miami and we're gonna all build our companies side by side and we'll share learnings and that's gonna be great well grow very quickly together then we're like wait we're all super talented individuals why don't we and this is a really interesting thing that we're doing we're all young having fun and building companies let's record it let's make some content out of it then it became oh wait hiring videographer and editors and all the back end systems in place actually is gonna be pretty expensive and take some time how can we monetize it and so that's when the idea was like okay let's make a course to help other people learn how to make apps too and then we could continue to do it we do make cool content and we're at least breaking even and a lot of people's criticism on that was like you're already making so much money why do you need to make more because we're business people at heart we need a we wanna break even but then when we were thinking about angles to like launch this and everything we decided to go the super controversial route like you said the agitated it was like sell the dream sell the lifestyle instead of sell the product and it was it was interesting i don't think it's it's definitely not a real representation of any of our characters we very intentionally wanted to rage bit people but yeah definitely i mean it worked it took over the twitter sideline but it definitely started a lot of beef with people that might have bob been great yeah looking back now are you like good move bad move what what what what's the post game i think that it makes the story more interesting but if i were to do something again i would definitely take a little bit of a different angle i mean to be honest there was no reason to even launch on twitter given what we were trying to do like the twitter view was not we're not who we were trying to make videos for so that was kind of just like our native platforms we decided to take over but yeah i don't think it was like the right strategy what's what's the first dumb purchase gonna be have you already had your dump is from the cash flow i guess like you're nineteen years old it just sold your company i'm you you can't say the number but i'm just because i think it probably was a number close to a hundred million dollars that's my guess so i i'll just make a guess for you because you're not allowed to say anything what's the dumb purchase gonna be you gotta do something dumb what you gonna do so i i already had the car the dream card just wanted i was out of the way lamborghini the one in the video green yellow what would you do what what color did you go with it's matte black matte black okay gotcha the funny thing is you look like the guys who walk up to a guy and a lamborghini and say hey you're on tiktok you have a little fake my phone and you're like hey what do you do for work and it's supposed to be an old real estate guy or like a shipping magnet in it but you're also the guy in the car it's crazy it's like a the spider man meme okay so you got the car already what do you wanna get now yeah i you're long you're all you you probably you're a roll you're a watch guy if i had a guess i mean i didn't get in any like crazy watch yet i'm i'm maybe i get a watch to be honest soon like i do have one but i'm not like a huge collector of anything yet however what i did do and i wanted to do this for a while is i kind of threw throughout or i'm gonna donate everything in my closet and last week i went shopping with a stylist and i redid everything so whole new wardrobe and honestly it's been great i feel like it's it's all pretty cool that's such a great move and by the way that cost so much less than people think to to do something i did that when i twenty four years old it didn't yeah i'm i'm fifteen years i don't wear any of that stuff anymore but like it was such a great move i think at the time i think i paid something like three grand or something for the stylist to come with me for your day or two maybe i found like kind of i don't i i literally post on craigslist originally and i got a bunch of applicants and i just told was i wanna buy like a five hundred dollar belt like i'm not trying to wear gucci like that's not the goal like i just wanna look good and have clothes i fit me right because i don't really know how to do any of that stuff can you help me out and she was it was amazing it was such a good process like i think every young guy who comes in a little bit of money it's like one of those purchases that sounds a little silly it's like kinda don't wanna say you did it but actually is a is a great move yeah no i think it's definitely worth it so are you are you working at my fitness now yes i am i'm still the ceo of kelly how long are you gonna work do you have an earn now or like a like are you there for two years i can't say exactly on this but there is a period where i'm staying before i leak okay okay yeah that's do they they bought a hundred percent of the company though like own it now you don't have to like it's not like an investment that you then it's not an investment it's actually an acquisition yes i looked up the my fitness pal ceo it looks like mike fisher he was at at etsy so yeah you a huge company and then i think if i had to get my west point like made an article on so i assume he graduated from west point i think that would be out it's gonna be really cool for you to learn from this guy i if i had a guess he's an operator he's probably pretty rigid and in a good way and that's gonna be like you'll probably learn a lot yeah yeah it's been good so far we catch up like about once a week and it's nice teach just some of the tactical good decisions that made a difference for you and actually building the app right we're kinda gloss over the fact that like you built this app a lot of people build apps but your app actually started to work and grew and scaled a lot we talked about this a lot on the first episode about your tiktok strategy how you basically you know would message tons of people have them create content that would be talking about the app in an organic native way and then that would lead to awareness and downloads at the app but are there like small things like you know either product decisions or like a marketing hook that you stumbled into that kind changed the way you guys thought about things oh we thought it should be and then actually we i remember one day we realized this other thing was the way to way to do it can you tell a story like that i love those stories yep there were two things here that i would say we're crucial to the growth of the business as i mentioned the last time i came on influencer marketing is what started us and it took us really far we got to about two million dollars a month just from influencer marketing the thing is after that we kind of plateau a little bit and what really got us over the hump the next step was running ads performance ads on instagram and tiktok and facebook and so invested a lot more time learning and scaling ads and that's actually what's fueling most of the growth at this point so there's a lot of learnings on that how much how much are you spending a month can you reveal that i don't know well it's scaled over time in january we spent maybe a little over a million oh wow that's pretty efficient then and i saw a post where you said that you bought like a four hundred thousand dollar ad with mister beast it's i'm the guest or the host was like was that profitable and you were like i don't know yeah so we didn't add with mister reese we paid him half a million dollars for him to put us in one of his videos it was basically this contestant that was brought on he was locked in a gym until he like lost a certain number of a certain week met when he filming the video we we met him while he was filming we were at his we at a studio he brother ago my my friend has been locked in this gym for you know a hundred days now he's got two more to go and so we went and visited like him in the zoo was like sixteen months ago it was like a that's how long they were planning this video yeah that's it's that was a wild video i think he was one of their best performing videos yeah like at a long time when it came out and so they were making a second video on their second channel which was like did he maintain his body way after the video or did he just reg progress and i we were offered to sponsor that video i knew someone that like was on the team and so we helped us sponsor it and so they let me fly out to actually see a admin and then they offered me to do one of the takes to come in and talk about the app so it was cool they ended up using that take in the video i'd say that the results of that that right away definitely was a little bit unprofitable it's always hard attribution because there's no way like most people are going to the apps are directly and downloading not many people are clicking a link so you don't know exactly how many people want and downloaded but looking at the time overlap looking at promo code usage and a few other metrics that we used to determine this stuff we probably made three hundred fifty thousand dollars maybe four hundred thousand dollars just from that five hundred thousand dollar promo and the rest of it actually i believe we were profitable long term and if we're not yet we're going to be because you having the brand name mister be saying we were in a video we were able to do way more deals afterwards we had way more credibility with our brand and so the profit from those deals it's enabled for us has exceeded the total amount how big the team the team is about thirty people a little more than that and how many hours a week are you spending going to class well first semester i took i think it was four classes a week so it wasn't that crazy a schedule it was like an hour and a half what what what's your major what do what are we what you studying are you like rocks for jo type of schedule where you're like i'm gonna have a history and just i need to pass or are you like i'm trying to be a computer science major i first joined the business school or i applied into it but i switched out and went undecided because i wanted to do more of kind of with steve jobs that always talked about how he took like the calligraphy class that really enabled him right to build the macintosh operating system so i was taking like a vr class which was really cool it was like all about the med a class on a design class two a business class and the professor there was actually a really awesome guy did you know how like china like raises like super athletes like they get like two seven foot people and they like make them breed like they like set them up to at the age of twelve the kid has everything they need this is like you for a business like you already have an exit running a company your your downloading steve job ideas and like going to going through i'm impressed with your decision making like even just that little thing of like you know what like business would be that kinda maybe obvious choice for you but saying i'm gonna go and undecided so that i freedom to take interesting classes that just sparked my curiosity maybe outside of my normal path of things i'm familiar with because long term that's actually gonna help me maybe right like you know i feel like some of your decisions have been good in fact probably that's the most impressive part about you you're a well spoken guy you've obviously household you built a cool app like all of that's great but yeah the decision making is actually what stands out to me in a way that like is not common amongst people in general but definitely amongst younger people right like i'm i have friends that i have friends that make terrible decisions and i i see you and i'm like this guys kinda could consistently making good decisions are you a big like mentors guide do you have like a a person you call for a lot of questions are you just figuring the stuff out on your own are you a journal like what what's your what's helping you here thank you first of all really means a lot i think i definitely add mentors that supported me one my someone who was my c founder with kelly blake anderson he's he's helped me a lot with so many things not just business life but personal life too so i've learned a ton from him and i'd say that's that's definitely helped me he's the biggest thing is he's helped me shape a lot of decision making frameworks so how to analyze one to make certain decisions like he kind of taught me about like what e is and all of these different principles to help make smart all some of those i i would like to learn what your what are your frameworks are making good decisions like what what comes top of mind sure well eva is a good one so like gambler obviously know this where it's like the percent chance of winning something and then the prize and you multiply them together and then it's like whatever you have one hundred percent chance of getting versus the chance of losing it all versus versus the prize money you could have whichever is greater like that's which one you should often pick and so using that was very helpful for one thinking about okay selling the company and what we think makes sense in terms of what we're willing to sell words like what do we think the e is of like what's what's the chance of us getting to this what's the chance that it falling apart what's chance of this and so that that was helpful it's like one good decision making framework yeah that's a it's a great one especially for selling because you let's say let's just pretend somebody offers you a hundred dollars for your your business so you have a hundred percent chance of the hundred dollars or maybe not even a hundred maybe ninety because it might not close but okay so yeah you basically the expected value of that let's call it is a hundred dollars hundred percent times a hundred dollars and then you say but if we keep going we could get to what if we could get to five hundred okay great you what if sure then you asked the question well what do you think are the chances you could get there so there's a ten percent chance okay so a ten percent times five hundred gives you fifty so it's a better decision to take the hundred expected value over the fifty right or let's say you think it's a twenty percent chance so now you're even okay but what's the percent chance it all falls apart goes to zero right there's gonna if you keep running it you have some risk ongoing risk of it falling apart even if you think that's a ten percent chance you have to factor that in and so once you do that you get a more objective way of making a decision versus just going on pure emotion or your mood in the moment or fear and greed but based on whatever whatever day the weather is for you yeah that was a perfect example and selling for in my opinion selling for you that's just such a no brainer so no brainer because liquid money that you have is gonna compound i mean to have what you have i don't know what you have but seven or eight figures i don't know at that young age is gonna compound like crazy and also i think people underestimate the clout that comes with a sale right yeah yeah that's true he's like i don't underestimate that okay so where two from here so just gonna go to college now you're gonna like if eventually in the future you wanna start something new if you start something new do you you're like i have to go bigger are you gonna fall into that trap like what what's gonna be the mindset going forward now i have so many ideas always i'm very committed to making sure that kelly i will endure long term and so i wanna make sure that the transition is super smooth between the companies and i likely in a few months will start i don't know if i'm gonna be as open with this one as i was with kelly i was so public about cali i which i think was great like so much upside even though there was downside to but way more upside when the next one i'll probably be a little more stealthy and i think i know what i wanna build i'm not gonna share just yet but about i'm definitely excited to like work on something new i have a ton of new ideas what were the top three ideas that you interested in i'd say the contenders like they don't really matter that much because i didn't believe in them enough to wanna start them but there are there are many good ideas i mean i just had this idea like for other apps while building kelly i just constantly i'd was like oh this would be a cool million dollar idea i could see this going super viral very easily and it's not hard to build but like at this point it doesn't really make sense for me to spend my time doing it so i'm i'm shooting for like a billion dollar company is my goal and so one idea that i actually tweeted about two days ago is that someone should build a semantic search for your followers on either instagram or x wherever you want so that you could look through and this could be helpful for so many reasons let's say you're looking to date someone like instagram a lot of people don't realize but like it's one of the it's it's one of the biggest dating apps like so many people are meeting from instagram today so being able to semantic search for your type through your followers and then going through do you able to semantic search who the entrepreneurs that follow me for the cool people i mean my tweet is blew up and i had so many people follow me and i'm like looking through it and i'm like oh shit this really cool person following me i had no idea and like i didn't get a special notification so even being able to be alerted of stuff like that that's definitely an easy like few million dollar idea that someone can build be cool yeah i've always wanted that i would pay for that same thing i don't go through who follows and so like i don't get alerted if somebody interesting follows me somebody that i would wanna know it's a hard thing to exactly say well who who would you wanna know about i don't know but it's it it's like i can't give you one rule but there's somebody who could figure if you could figure that one problem out there's a lot of people who would be interested in that whether it's on the search side or the alert side i'm i'm a believer in that what are some other cool ideas so if there's somebody who's the you know sort of seventeen eighteen nineteen year old version of you are you guiding them to be like build apps is that is that the play you still see as the j is it is or is it specifically around ai is it you know what what what are the ideas you would brainstorm for kind of the next version of you who's sitting somewhere listening to this episode right now so if they are just trying to get started it's like one of their first projects they're not trying to swing too big they're trying to swing something reasonable like build a a million dollar company or make a few million dollars from it then i think apps is such a great space to build in right now because there are so many so many apps that are just possible to build now especially enabled by ai but even without ai for example some that have spun up recently my friend built an app called quit it is an app that helps guys quit porn doesn't really use ai just kind of ga gamification the process gives you a streak gives you a map rewards like meditation guides and that's been super helpful for a lot of people and now it's making over five million dollars a year crazy you that's awesome what are some other cool apps that we i was not on our radar but just people who are doing well people who are crushing and people have cool ideas yeah do you guys see clam no how you spell it no okay so blew up on twitter a little bit it was made by one of my friends it's basically an app that allows people to get into class action lawsuits where like let's say you drank pepsi and then there's a pepsi class action lawsuit you could sign ups that when it settled you get like ten bucks or fifteen what how do you hell how do you spell it c a c l a i m it actually got taken off the apps or unfortunately but they made like a million dollars in their first thirty days of launch i probably make them pay is the what was which sean and i were like twenty two there was a app that got released in san francisco that was amazing it was called do not pay and i don't know oh is that still around yeah oh yeah it is yeah but the the it was it was magic when it got released basically in san francisco it was famous like in a new york imagine the same way where if you get a getting parking tickets sometimes you're like i'll get two parking tickets a month instead of paying for parking and it's gonna like be a better deal and it would somehow automatically tell you before even got back to your car that you got the parking ticket and it's gonna like fight it for you and it was amazing but it would you it would scan the ticket and be like look he wrote the number but it went outside of the box that he you know the box where he were supposed to be in technically you don't have to pay now right or you didn't fill this in or this the the visibility on that sign is low so you don't have to pay and then i think the city like banned it and it and it went away but apps like that were amazing and this is the same thing as claim where it's like just just go go and find me money or save me money go go ahead and just do that for me thanks podcast is brought to you by my friends at mercury they make the world's best banking product i think you know this already i used mercury for all my businesses i think i have like maybe seven or eight businesses we use mercury as our business banking across all of them and now they actually just launched a personal banking account so i have my personal account there i moved off of wells fargo in chase i'm just all in on mercury why i like products that are easy to use i like products that get me and the problems that i have so like very easy to make a joint account with my wife very easy to spin up virtual cards one click and i get savings yield it just has all the stuff that i need in one place so if you're looking for the best banking product on the market it's definitely mercury i will fist fight anybody who disagrees with me on that go to mercury dot com slash personal and learn more mercury is a fintech not an fdic insured bank banking services are provided through choice financial group and call them an a members fdic what's your framework you used to think of you sort you used to filter a good bad idea here is it i work backwards from the ad you know i think about what the tiktok would be and if it makes for a juicy tiktok then it's gonna be a good app it's gonna be a good app or is it i want an app that makes you money or helps you you know stop a problem or start a thing that you a i think that you wanted like i guess walk us through how do you think about these that's a great question because i think a lot of people always ask like oh how do you come up with ideas the first question i always get when i tell someone about cali i's how do you come up with that and everyone's trying to think like i wanna come up with these huge ideas how can i do it i think that a better you like learning how to come up with ideas that is a skill but i think the more important skill in the better skill is a framework to validate what is a good idea because you could come up with ideas all the time but like you need to know okay which ones are good which ones are bad you could filter through really quickly and the way that i validate them i think it needs to be a little bit different for everyone like because it depends on your skill set i validate good or bad ideas that are good or bad for me like stuff i'm interested in stuff i think i could kill and like really blow up and so for me i look for ideas that i know are very marketable they can go super viral and i look for things that i've personally experienced have some first firsthand experience with or i know people that are experiencing it so i i know who i'm building for very specifically and there are and i i've seen enough companies where i can have an idea like okay this company that's adjacent to this one to the idea i have the jason company is doing this much in revenue so i think i can at least get to hear if not all the way or surpass it and so it gives me a good quick way of thinking like how far can this go but before building that intuition you could always analyze the tam of a space you could analyze the competitive landscape and there are a few other metrics that you could look at that just help you kind of objectively assess is this something worth pursuing but what's your checklist now so for tam what's your tam size to be honest tam is one of those things where i try to i kind of always look at my gut for this i'm not like doing google research okay what's the i didn't look up what's the tam of a calorie tracking app before starting kelly but i kind of saw okay this other app is making two hundred million dollars a year so i know that's like the like the minimum ceiling the lowest floor of what we could get to and so that's how i validated building one but i think a lot of people are toward by seeing that another app or another product is doing the opposite let's should say that's proof yeah exactly that's prove it works and the market is so big that all of these apps can be successful i mean if a company is still growing that means that there's still a gap there's still people that are underserved and can use it like i hear all the time i was in the entrepreneurship class people are pitching their ideas everyone was like wait that already exists that already exists and it like deter them but it shouldn't yeah that's so funny that is the first thing oh that already exists yeah okay so we're looking for non existent yes ideas you know along whole few ideas followed that i mean there are some that are in that category but that doesn't describe most yeah that that's yeah it's a pretty crazy mistake that people make but you yeah i i had a friend who was an out of state person and he was looking at university of miami and it was a hundred thousand dollars a year to go are you are you spending are you the one are you pay your own tuition i am i do have a scholarship my parents actually paid for my first semester which was nice but now i am paying going forward if i do wanna stay like i paid for this one and after this i'll probably just honestly drop out so won't be an issue that's so funny i are you like it wasn't i was like thirty three i got off my parents cell phone bill like it was just too much of a pain in the ass still sean are you under your parents family playing still i think i was till literally last year yeah like it wasn't by the way it was exactly as much of a pain in the ass as i thought it would be like four hours in the at and t store with my three cases it was horrible zach i got a question for you where what are you curious about right now like what's exciting to you you probably are you know you're young and your kind of technology forward and you hang out with different people that are you know kind of people who do shit that are young i'm most interested in what you kinda your generation is more is is interested like are there certain types of businesses that you admire are there certain technologies that you're playing with like you mentioned vr for example are there companies you think are really cool are there spaces you know white papers you're reading you know researcher you're reading that that's kind of got your interest let's just play a game of like what's been interesting to you lately yeah i mean something interesting which honestly it's a little bit scary too is that people like elon musk are saying all the time that we're gonna have so much abundance that like it seems like the need for entrepreneurs is kind of going to go away pretty soon mh and that money won't matter anymore like he's saying you shouldn't save for your retirement and so that's like a super interesting concept i already feel like the world i live in now since when i was like maybe ten or eleven i feel like it's completely different a lot of that is just like a lot of the beliefs that i held that i was taught in school they're just completely flipped on their head and now i believe the opposite but it really seems like we are going to experience an entirely new world pretty soon if these ai labs reach the goals that they're setting out to achieve and that's a little scary but exciting at the same time yeah so what what do you do because that's paralyzing right i flip flop between oh my god there's so much opportunity i'm gonna make so much money than an hour later oh i'm obsolete then the next one wait money's actually obsolete right like i'm just flop between these different extreme like where's the puck going and it's very hard to figure out well what do i actually do with my time and my my energy and my talent now like what what what's gonna matter if you believe that it is gonna be a whole new world okay so did you just wait like what do you do yeah no it's honestly a great question i was actually at dinner with steve cohen last night and he was he was kinda the like fifty billion dollar owner of the met steve cohen yes it was it was very cool very nice and great to meet him in person but the most interesting thing he was saying was that right now he's just trying to figure out how to kind of invest or extend the timeline of his companies or ones that he's looking at investing in like three years just survive three years and then figure it out after that like no one knows where the future is heading so you just have to figure how to survive in the intermediate period and then after that figure out okay what do we do next did you learn anything else at that dinner he's a pretty i mean he's kind he he kinda super interesting up there with elon and a few of these other guys his insights are probably as wide we had very interesting discussions on kind of where society's heading with all this different possibilities and like the timeline the chance of it getting there it seems like it may take well what's interesting is a lot of people are thinking about the the ai part like okay we saw the ag then overnight everything changes that's kind of what people are assuming but the software is one problem software is one small problem the hardware like building out these humanoid robots that are going to execute these tasks that's a whole another problem and so there are cool companies like physical intelligence that are trying to solve this but that is potentially just as hard and so people are are you interested in getting in to some of these like really really big ideas that require a lot of venture capital and can be tens of billions hundreds of billions are companies or do you prefer to stay in the consumer space and kind of stay in the same industry that you're into now a bootstrap thing i really enjoy building products for consumers i just love it's the biggest compliment to me hearing that someone else uses something that i built especially when they love it like with cali i it's it's actually pretty it every once in a while now someone's like oh yeah i use that when they hear that i built it and it's so awesome to see so i definitely want to keep that i think that whether that's hardware or software though both are cool i do definitely want to build a company that does have a hardware component to it maybe not exclusively hardware but something that can be other software or hardware like both that we sell sean do you have a a take on what he was talking about with ai and like like so where do you generally land of when you os from i'm gonna make a ton of money and money doesn't matter alright that's a complicated question so i i do think both of the first parts are true of what i said meaning there's never been more opportunity and also there's gonna be a ton of creative destruction so meaning oh my god there's so much opportunity also man some of these things i own or operate could get wiped out i think so i think both of those are true similarly oh my god i'm all powerful i can do so much now with ai also i might be obsolete also that's also both true if i don't actually build up skills to use ai well if i just think that oh i'm i'll be in my little bubble here and i'll just keep doing things the way i've been doing them for the past ten years when this like new super weapon came out that's also a little bit silly right that'd be like having an army with like musk kits or something like that and you know tanks and and what whatnot i just got got invent so think both of those are true now the question that that's axe asking which is like so what do you do if kinda ag is around the corner and that corner is depending on who you believe one to fifteen years away and you know and and so what do you do in that situation well there's kind of two approaches one is you join the ag race right so you go and join one of the labs you try to build something in that space another thing you do is you build something that will be be in like it'll that'll be wind in the sales right so there's some companies that every time the model gets smarter their product gets better right so they're building tools for lawyers let's say and every time the models get smarter they're just better at build they're belt better at building things for lawyers like they're their tool for lawyers got more useful and then there's things that ai can't touch right and you're like okay so what are things that ai is not really gonna touch in the near term so this is like you know real world things community religion you know gyms you know things that are like extra exercise right like what are gonna be the things that people will do are kind of the last man standing in a world where ai gets smarter and smarter smarter or better at doing digital work and so you could go in that direction right like i'm famously not but i have friend who talked to a famous investor and he was like oh man ai is gonna be crazy we're gonna do this and this and this and this what so do you think i should do goes i think he should buy railroads and he is basically saying like not literally railroads but basically what's something that won't get touched by ai sounds like you don't know what the hell gonna happen you should go find something physical that's that is gonna be like you know the the farthest end away from ai so you have time to adjust to it versus doing something that's just gonna like here today gone tomorrow type of idea i think i'm like a huge history nerd zach yeah as sean and many listeners listeners know i love history i don't know much about ai though and what i've learned through history is that humans have thought the same things about their period of time as every other person in that particular at a different period of time has thought and so there's this like famous story of winston churchill who was the leader of england or world war two they thought the nazis were gonna take over the world they thought that the he thought the world was gonna end he wrote he's like i think the world actually my end and and this is gonna be bad and that's where the famous quote he has his famous quote he goes if you're going through hell keep on walking like you gotta keep on going if you're in the middle of hell you know you can't stop but you can't stop moving and generally speaking great smart people who are titans of industry and world leaders every decade think that something bad is gonna happen and we've mostly have been fine there's been a lot of blip in in the in the story but we've mostly been fine and i tend to think i tend to be blindly optimistic just because i have faith in human beings that like it's probably gonna be fine it's just gonna be like it will be maybe a decade or two of uncertainty and perhaps pain for particular types of people but in general it's probably gonna work out yeah i i think that's a very valid honestly and by the way if it doesn't end up fine doesn't matter then it didn't matter for you it's over yeah that's why i that's like and i my money in chase bank because of like i'm i all the bank runs a few years ago freaked me out and i was like i'm gonna all my money in chase because if i don't think it's had to fail and if it does money doesn't matter yeah yeah yeah it's all it's all over the don't i'm even talking about like the world ending stuff it's just kinda like what do you do with your time and your talents in a highly rapidly changing world and i again i think you either lean way into it meaning you joined the frontier you do something adjacent where the more the frontier work advances your cause benefits you know your your your specific utility benefits or you go the exact opposite as direction and you say well that stuff's gonna get so abundant what's gonna be scarce and you go figure out what will still be scarce if that becomes really abundant if intelligence becomes super abundant if the ability to get work done you know on a computer becomes super easy that any you know your ai is gonna do better than you right if if if drivers are obsolete because the cars drives themselves okay cool what's what's left what's still scares you know at the end of the day and just go in that direction i think that's a pretty reasonable take the things that stay scarce seem to be a human connection is one that will stay scarce and then also like what like entertainment are like sports games live events these are these are things that will be more scarce is especially when like ai is making like your feed on instagram and everything you see is just hyper doping optimized content like right if everything's fake then real become scarce and truth become scarce you're right like with the sports things because there's already chess bots that play chess better than all the chess players but we still like to play chess and and watch people play chess while humans play chess specifically nobody's watching the ai play chess but we will watch mag center or whoever as just like specific example and then the same thing is true for sports right like running well there's machines that run faster than than humans about people will still tune into a human running and not a machine running or even if it's a car it's you know it's a car being driven by a human and not drone racing which is you know more more more automated and so those have a bit kind of almost proven to be ai proof in a way and it's like it's got some immunity and you're like oh okay they're they're kind of immune to that okay it seems like owning a sports team is probably a good a good type of investment whereas owning a call center is probably not an investment you wanna be in anymore right zach a a question that we ask a lot of people who make a lot of money overnight we say well what did you do with it what where did you invest your money so i'm curious with that you don't have to say numbers you could say percentages do you have a do you have a strategy so my strategy is essentially that i want to take i i don't like investing in other people frankly i like to invest in myself i don't wanna rely on someone else to multiply my money like trusting their ceo to make the right decisions to grow their company i want to invest it in myself so i am putting most of it in the s and p five hundred but generally the strategy is i want to take more outs sized risks on my own like putting the funds into my ventures so that's my plan i'm gonna take money out and put them into my own as i start things okay so you have one hundred percent of a sum what percent are you gonna keep in the s and p and what percent are you gonna put into your own company so right now i believe it's seventy five or seventy percent something like that in the s and p something like twenty five percent that's in the money market or yes actually and then a few percentage points like within those that are like scattered like a a tiny bit of big bitcoin a tiny bit of gold i believe that's it really just those four places and then i'm gonna be pulling out of mostly the or i guess everything when i need to invest in my company don't wait wait one hundred percent you're gonna put in your own company and not one hundred percent because i think for the next venture i will most likely raise money just because now this is kind of like my nest egg i never need to worry about it i'm definitely willing to like take risks but how much what percent like in your head you're thinking let's say hypothetically you have ten million dollars what percent do you wanna to put in your new cup yeah well i mean maybe this goes to the e question a little bit because it really depends how confident i am in the idea like that elon story of is he he like he almost went bankrupt because he split up his wealth and gave half to tesla half to spacex and that saved both companies so if if that's what it takes at some point and i'm confident then maybe maybe that's what it will take you're impressive young guy is there anything you wanna get back you're like oh i suck at this today i'm i'm really poor at this area i need to figure this out what's what's an area you're trying to grow in that's a great question i want to understand the full picture of the world much better i'm not someone who really understands economic policy well i don't really understand like gdp of the world and how that influences things and building a company like kelly it doesn't really influence it but if i'm trying to build like a massive company if i'm trying to build the next meta or the next open ai the next apple the next google i think it is important to understand the general trends of where the world is heading crazy dude we're this is like you know like there's like that story or that video where obama makes one of donald trump at like the preston dinner and like there's a meme where it's like this is when trump became the villain or this is when he decided to like run for president it's so funny that we get to have you on here because we saw your come up we've now are talking to you when you've definitely have made it if you accomplish nothing for the from here on out you're gonna be a ten out of ten massive success but like we're hearing you where you're at this like fork in a road where it's like is this gonna be sean and say i'm talking to elon when he is twenty years old because it definitely could be and you're you're you're saying things where it it definitely indicates where i'm like this is gonna be a very cool thing to look back on in twenty years or ten years that we've been able to catch you so so early thank you i'm very ambitious should end every conversation with that yeah goodbye i'm very ambitious that's awesome zach thanks for coming on man i appreciate you making at the time thanks for adam it's always fun thanks that's it that's the pod i feel like i could rule to where to know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on a go less travel never look back alright my friends i have a new podcast for you guys to check out it's called content is profit and it's hosted by luis and ph ka after years of building content teams and frameworks for companies like red bull and orange theory fitness luis and ph are on a mission to bridge the gap between content and revenue in each episode you're gonna hear from top entrepreneurs and creators and you're gonna hear him share their secrets and strategies to turn their content into profit so you can check out content is profit wherever you get your podcast