I asked Cathie Wood the question no one else will

you manage more money than any other woman on earth across the company we're closing in on forty billion she's called one of the most disruptive and innovative forces kathy wood making some big headlines the arch innovation etf soared over the early pandemic if i'm a believer in ai what's the number one stock that i should own i think everyone knows about nvidia we always try and answer that question with stocks people not thinking about in the right way so here's the tough question if somebody else had your track record would you invest in them well i feel like i could rule where to know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on a track kathy wood you're here i appreciate you doing this you're a pretty remarkable person i've been watching you for a long time and there's a good chance that you manage more money than any other woman on earth as a fun as a active fund manager i don't know if that's exactly true but you may be top five yeah probably i don't know i don't know myself i don't i don't have those members yeah i'm curious actually where what's the humble origins so what was kathy woods first job mcdonald's that's year what were you doing cheeseburgers burgers no i wasn't i was at the register i was sixteen i also worked at a supermarket i first girl allowed to push in carts at von supermarket in southern california do you remember roughly what you were making when you worked at mcdonald's hourly gosh i know well right before that i was babysitting for a quarter an hour so so you went from maybe a quarter an hour to managing something like twenty thirty billion dollars in fun and i think this is interesting the reason i ask is because in the world of entrepreneurship we always hear these hustle stories and i don't think you go mcdonald's to to you know the top where you're at without hustle so what's the hustle story you pride yourself on well the first big break was getting into the business art la i'm not sure if you know la la curve supply side economics reagan economics he was my professor at the university of southern california he was like an adviser at to presidents right oh every president since richard nixon except for president's obama and biden and you know he he was agnostic if if anyone didn't matter what party wanted to hear what he had to say about taxes der regulation monetary policy he wanted to give his point of view and you know we've come full circle art and i because i and my team introduced art in two thousand fifteen to bitcoin and when he read our paper he said this is what i've been waiting for since the us closed the gold window in nineteen seventy one a global rules based monetary system wrong rule quantity theory of money you know limited to twenty one million units but we'll get there and of course he was talking about stable coins so now we have introduced him to stable coins t circle and so forth and he said the right rule have you seen this website wtf t happened in nineteen seventy one it's amazing there's a entire website basically saying what the f happened in nineteen seventy one and it shows like a series of charts where something happened in nineteen seventy one and the world was never really never the same and it's just a it's a very compelling case it makes you wanna go look at it and obviously i think that's the year that we went off the gold standard right it's for a year we went off the gold standard and all hell broke loose in monetary policy we went into massive inflation so anyway it was in the late seventies that while i was in his class that art introduced me to capital group i walked into capital group i didn't even know what the investment business was i had bit a a waitress i was interested in economics but i didn't know this business and capital was the premier firm in southern california at the time sounds like that might be a tough job to get art recommended me highly to don con who was the chief economist of capital group and i walked in there and dawn was losing a person who was going on to harvard business school so this woman her name was claudia huntington she was so good at what she did he was looking for one and a half people to replace her i was the half but i i didn't wanna be the half i wanted to be the one and a half let me ask you a question about that because i think everybody in their career you know we'll have an opportunity i had one when i i moved to san francisco when i was twenty four i didn't know anybody but i wanted to be an entrepreneur i wanted to be in silicon valley at this billionaire was hiring for this role i don't know how i got the job i was they literally told me you're not qualified for this but we like you we'll bring you on we'll still hire somebody else qualified for that role but we want you hear anyway so i had like my foot in the door but i think everybody has this opportunity to work hard but it's there's one thing to put in hours so i think there's a lesson in like first one to be there last one to leave like put in a sheer your number of hours but what else goes into kinda like making an impression during that like sprint phase of your career when you can just like fully go full force what else besides sitting in the chair for a lot of hours matters do you think you know what's the mindset sitting in the chair maybe matters but i think the most important thing is and my objective was to bring new technology into the firm i was using economics time sharing system we're back in time sharing all the charts that you just brought up thin been been then back then the each one would have cost in today's dollars five to ten thousand dollars so that just gives you a sense of how far we've come but sparingly i was able to use charts for you know ones we made up so original and then you know call them from people we trusted and really develop little economic books for and presentations for dawn to use yeah you you'll get what you want when you help other people get what they want so the fastest way to getting what you want is just to give other people what they want and i i like what you're pointing out which is that as a young person you're coming in without the experience without the network without maybe the the track record or any of those things those are your disadvantaged but my maybe your advantage is tech and new things might be easier for you to pick up because you have time and maybe you grew up with those tools and it you're less set in old ways and so you bring something to the table and you that can be your thing hey real quick our sponsor for today hubspot actually did something pretty cool if you like money stuff like this you're like investing wisdom like warren buffett or mon per bra well they actually put together a nine investment principles document there's a free document you can have of frameworks that they shared when they came on the podcast you can get it right now it's actually just a mental model that separates i guess the elite investors from the average investors you can get it right now scan the qr code or click the link of the description alright let me get back to the episode i'm just curious like what is a day in the life of cathy would look like what's your actual day to day main thing that you focus on i hold sacred in terms of from the moment i get up in the morning until ten thirty that time is all about research and so we have our research meeting from nine in the morning two ten thirty first first half of it is just the entire research team together and investment team portfolio management teams together really sharing information and then we focus on in the last half hour on one of the four teams so we have we're broken up into autonomous technology and robotics team ai and cloud which has fork another team which is consumer internet and fintech then we have our multi team which is really all about life sciences and how profoundly ai is going to transform health care and i think that's the most inefficient priced part of the market and then we have our blockchain technology team on fridays at ten thirty we have a brainstorm and the brainstorm is all our teams coming together or staying together but we have another i'm going to say another forty people who who have followed us over the years and are passionate about innovation and we invite them to what's called a brainstorm and that is where we we try to get out of this not invented here we really want pushback so these are venture capitalists they're entrepreneurs they're retired engineers they're retired professors they're people teaching in universities today and they are very vocal because they're every all of all of us they've probably more for their personal accounts but we're all trying to figure out how the world is going to work and we're trying to push the frontiers of knowledge forward as fast as we can anticipate what the next set of topics are going to be that people are discussing and trying to figure out where we should position ourselves that's pretty interesting do is that common do you do other firms do this kinda friday open door brainstorm with like external folks that that sounds pretty unique no they don't i and i've done this since two thousand one when i was at my last firm i i just thought it was really important not to get stuck in our own research but to have it battle tested and and we took that to another level when i founded arc with this notion that we're gonna give our research away we're gonna give our research away not when it's finished because it's never finished but as it is evolving and we push it out now at the time two thousand fourteen twitter was for between teens and celebrities right so i didn't think that was going to be our primary social network we thought maybe linkedin would be instead x has become the most important social network even for crypto i thought telegram was where all of that was going to live in yeah they're all kinds of conversations but the ones that we need and that i need to see they are on x and sometimes we stir the pot you know with our research and and get debates going so i feel that the world is moving so quickly today it's not like it was in nineteen seventy seven back in nineteen seventy seven as i described it was really expensive to get information and to travel places to pull information for management and so research departments like the one at capital they were closed and that was their secret sauce today information is ubiquitous it is all over the place in fact you have to figure out as it real or fake you know so you know so that takes another skill so i thought you know the closed world is probably not where we are best suited for for what we want to do and that is focus exclusively on technologically enabled disruptive innovation that's all we wanna do well there's so much information out there and we knew we could harness it and it's how you put it together and what you what what you place priorities on in terms of kind of information and the kinds of assumptions that you're making that become more important and you this might be a dumb question but like you will go on tv and you'll say i think tesla's is going to two thousand dollars a share whatever your target price is and everyone says oh my gosh that's really bullish and you say here's why we believe here's what what you know here's what we believe the future looks like and i hold tesla that i've hope that that all comes true but you are very active like you're buying and selling tesla all the time i looked in the last like twenty four hours your firm is made like twenty trades or something like that like millions of dollars in and out of these positions if you believe tesla's is going to you know some two thousand dollars a share why don't you just buy it and hold it what what is all the active trading for and like i day trading i mean i'm i'm not from the investor world so i'm trying to understand yeah you know you have sort of the buffett mentality and then you know you have you're very very active i don't really get that yeah that's another great question i know it must seem confusing so and we often do describe ourselves a few people believe this but we believe it as a deep value manager like a warren buffett if you give us five years and you know warren buffett he was the first to admit i don't invest in technology he made a few good ones like apple was great ibm not so but he knew where his strengths were or he knows where his strengths are he's still with us mh and he did not feel that technology was where he was where he had an edge that's where we do have our edge and so you can say we're a great compliment to the warren and buffett strategy if you give us a five year investment time horizon so why do we trade so much well because of what has happened to the markets and really since i got into the business it i think more than seventy five percent of the trading is algorithm and high frequency trading there's a huge amount of volatility in the market itself but especially in our stocks so if you look at our trading in tesla we are using it we are using the volatility to our advantage so rarely has tesla dropped below the number one position in our flagship portfolio a r k k what has happened it has gone from one hundred to five hundred dollars and becomes you know thirteen fourteen percent of the portfolio from a portfolio management point of view we are effectively rebalancing that's a lot of hard work one hundred five hundred and we know we know we know we know tesla is a controversial stock elon musk is a controversial individual and we are going to have opportunities at lower prices to move back in and so that's the kind of trading that you see around our high conviction stocks okay so let's take what you just said so you said give us five years right because we're betting on these sort of long term technology s curve that we're we we think are playing out so here's the tough question over the last ten years you've been making hundreds of millions in fees but to haven't outperformed the simple index like q q do you think that's a fair criticism so can i can i give you a reset here i love the question you're giving me an opportunity to answer a question that i i know is on many people's minds even if they don't ask it so thank you so our objective as as a firm is to deliver a minimum fifteen percent compound annual rate of return over five years so you are absolutely right we have not done that we have done that since inception so since inception our compound annual rate of return is over fifteen percent now what happened in the middle there because you're this you're focused on endpoint sensitivity and i understand why people use five years ten years all of that sure if you use ten years and you look at mornings star and just their quantitative metrics which have no human input they just have their rules based system based on the benchmark they selected for us we didn't choose the benchmark we are benchmark agnostic we are in the fourth percentile of performance for that benchmark now that benchmark is mid cap growth right which kind of fits because we consider ourselves all cap but you know if you average you'll get mid to mid ish cap let's say so that's good you know that's that's actually saying something the space we've been in anything less than large cap and especially mega cap growth especially in the tech space has been very tough okay so that's another marker now what about the last five years well we had covid in twenty twenty because the this is when we blew up i'm i'm not sure if you know this part of the history but because we were the only investment firm putting our research out on social media and the only one posting our trades every day we went viral during covid because everyone was sitting in front of their computers trying to figure out what to do with their time right and they're extra money right the way yeah and they're extra money we were actually the really one of the few out there teaching people about investing bringing them along on our journey in twenty twenty we were up a hundred and fifty percent and at the end of that year remember we're five years away from that is it what we're comparing against at the end of that year i was on eric chat show on bloomberg it was a holiday show and they gave us a lot of time and one of my main messages was hey keep some powder dry this we know what goes up like this is going to come down it's just too much capital chasing chasing the opportunity perhaps too soon and the re that that last point i probably should have said more loudly to myself and to our team right because even though our modeling stock by stock got us to a fifteen percent compound annual rate of return over the next five years which was very low normally we're normally we we're expecting twenty five to forty percent compound annual rate of return so it had dropped because of the appreciation and stocks to fifteen percent but what also had happened and what we did not appreciate enough was many people think oh the interest rate increase that wasn't as much the problem the problem was supply chain bottlenecks our models are driven by unit growth and when there's an interruption in unit growth our our model are the the rate of return expectations come down mh and i i thought and we thought we were gonna come out of this out of this crisis in a v shaped recovery and we did that was correct but we didn't catch how long it was going to take supply chains to re orient and that that i think was a big big lesson for us if i had just focused on that one variable i would have said alright let's move more into larger cap tech stocks with a big cash position that are innovating and it would have been the mag six and and all of that we did not do that what we did we owned them and as we because that we had started doing that in the bull market we always diversify as a bull market extends because our stocks do tend to go crazy to the upside so we were already doing that but then in twenty one those stocks kept going up and our stock so smaller cap and mid cap stocks started going down and so what we always do is rebalance we took profits there we bought that was just way too soon it worked out and i think history will show that everything is fine we had to have people stick with us and there are so many people who piled in at the top even though we're saying hold your horses and who left us at the bottom which is classic it's classic and so we're gonna be out there in this cycle a lot more saying along the way rebalance sell take profits so that when our our strategies go through a week's but a sinking spell then you'll have the psychological wherewithal to buy it's called rebalancing and it's a basic investment concept today's episode is brought to you by hubspot being a know it all used to be considered a bad thing but in business knowing it all it's everything because right now businesses are only using about twenty percent of their data unless you have hubspot that's where they take data that's buried in emails and call logs and meeting those they become insights that i help you grow your business because when you know more you grow more you see being don't know it all isn't so bad after all visit hubspot dot com to learn more today betting against you as betting against a combination of things that i would never wanna bed against it's betting against ai it's betting against crypto it's better against innovation and it's betting against c1 elon musk and those are just that's not who i you know that's like the monsters stars and space sham i'm just not trying to bet against that you might even be right on some on any of those individual things maybe for a period of time it's just not where i would wanna be positioned against long term at the same time like i'm a normal person and it's pretty crazy when like i this is in venture capital too by the way invested capital vcs it's a rigged game i heard this a long time ago and i it never left me which is venture capitals is a rig game you make two percent annually on on your fees regardless whether you make money or lose money and i think what you do is very similar right like if you have like i don't let's just use them round number twenty billion in assets across your etfs is that about right across the company we're closing in on forty billion okay that includes the digital assets private funds yeah so we do have a venture fund so i know what you're talking about we're doing ours a little differently we don't have a carry so that anyone with five hundred dollars can can get on the cap tables of spacex open ai ne link and so we don't have carry so how do you make money in that just what we do is we do have a high fee so i think it's two point seven five percent and what we did to arrive there is we said okay what do the best venture capital firms in the world deliver over time in terms of compound annual rate of return for their clients and how much of the benefit do they derive and the the best ones and and maybe they're gonna be north of two point seven five percent per year on average and especially in this kind of a market where ai is just out of sight but the best ones if you do a very long term historical retrospective or the historical is retrospective two point seven five percent was the landing point but we are offering direct to cap table these are not sp right not sp so there are no fees or pump fees upon fees right and so you you know i think that the challenge is basically on a twenty or forty billion dollars in total assets there's a guarantee as a is why finance and fund management is like one of the best businesses in the world is you get a you know hundreds of millions and fees guaranteed regardless of whether you're up whether you're down and then you know like the more you go up maybe you you have additional carrier there's other things that you know in venture capital that that you benefit from so i think that's the that's the the challenge right like mon used just say you know show me incentive show your outcome is like i think all all finance and fund management is generally suited towards grow assets under management we make money either way and then like try to do your best in terms of the performance and in the long run you know you will be judged on the performance but in the short run it's hard to tell like what what's what's working and what's not which is why when buffett i think started he he basically said i'll take nothing for the first six percent which i think was like kind of the sort of the index standard at the time and he said but above if i beat if i beat market then i want twenty five percent of profits and i thought like you know that was a a great structure and i think the world of finances has moved away from that because why would you if you could i i would do it too if i could take the guaranteed fees i'm gonna take it well you know it's interesting from the i'm gonna say from the eighties on when i saw hedge fund structures and venture capital i said i'm an economist i'm i said oh that game's gonna end that's you know that those those kinds of excesses excessive return shall we say they they go with competition but in the venture world and there is a huge amount of competition but if you look at where the real money is made it's in the top you know ten the top ten is where a disproportionate amount of the returns are and of course that's what we're aspiring to and of course everyone is aspiring to it but there's some kind of network effect and and i think it has to do with the the network effect is is not a viral app it is the community oh venture has one different property than what you do outside of your venture stuff which is in startups it's the only asset class where the the security selects the investor so you know yeah buffet it or any public stock market i get to just pick what i wanna be in and i push a button i'm man i'm in the stock whereas venture the hot startups wanna be with the hot funds and only the hot funds get to be on the app table so the security selects the the investor not just the investor selection security so it has this like that's where the network effect comes in that's where the brand effects come in and that's why sequoia and benchmark and these other guys will keep showing up in the top because if i'm one of the top startups i want them and so they get they get the access even if another investor was totally right in their thesis they just can't get them yeah it's a it's a self yes there is there self selection you're seeing in the hedge fund world big changes though in that world the fee structure is changing because passive the the indexes were outperforming active it was a a self fulfilling prophecy because the pendulum was swinging there i believe that that pendulum swing i think i think that and consider the source right but i think the pendulum swing the final sw in that direction was in the last few years towards the mag six and now they're so con one of the reasons they're such concentrated parts of the now are they all gonna benefit from all of these new technologies you know our focus on robotics energy storage ai blockchain technology multi some of them will apple we've been watching for a long time finally it's out they don't know what they're doing in in ai now i think they're scrambling a bit so you know we'll see what happens each one of them has a weakness each of the mag six has a week a weak spot sure they'll participate in the wave but they also have some weaknesses caused by the disruptions associated with these new ways of doing things and i think we're at the beginning of that pendulum swing in the other direction as i just said consider the source that would be great for us because we don't own the mag six in our top ten it's not like we won't own them but we don't own them for the most part in the top ten if i'm a believer in ai what's the number one stock that i should own to benefit from the oncoming ai wave well i think everyone knows about nvidia we always try and answer that question with stocks people either they don't know or they're not quite thinking about them in the right way so yeah misunderstood maybe maybe not but misunderstood or mis price and if you so yes as we were selling nvidia and and we got all kinds of fl not nobody bothered to notice that we put it in the portfolio in two thousand fourteen because of autonomous driving at i think twenty cents on the current stocks stocks basis at twenty cents per share and we held it for years and no one would listen to us no one i talked about robotics talked about autonomous driving talked about nope it was a pc gaming chip company and that's all it was and then it explodes with chat gb and you know we we start selling it and and and we sold it too soon in the in the flagship i mean meaning we exited it we're back in it now when it dropped during tariff turmoil but what did we put the in portfolio management you have to not look at what just what was sold but what did you do with the proceeds how about pal which i think from that point has done better than nvidia i i i don't know it was that was the case at one point how about coinbase when the sec was suing it that's one of the that that's what we use some of the nvidia for it has done pretty darn well i think almost as well as nvidia so you have to do so today of course nvidia still i mean we we it it still has a a a very important role pal still has a very important role it is the premier platform as a service company we think embodied ai is under underappreciated what is that embodied ai is physical ai physical and digital world's meeting you know what i'm gonna say next tesla is the largest ai project on earth and it's not just robo taxis anymore it is humanoid robots it is humanoid robots and according to our research while the robo taxi opportunity globally for everyone including china is an eight to ten trillion dollar revenue opportunity in the next five to ten years from maybe a billion now so think about that a billion to eight to ten trillion the whole ecosystem with the platform companies like tesla getting half of that so that's four to five trillion that's a big market according to our estimates the humanoid robot market will be a twenty six trillion dollar market in the next i'll say seven to fifteen years so me and tyler the ceo of came up with a little challenge for you it's the newsletter challenge now if you know me you know that i'm a big fan of newsletter i got my own newsletter i also had a business that was a newsletter business that was amazing i wrote this newsletter about crypto we grew it to quarter million subscribers and we ended up selling it after a year for millions of dollars and i want you to be able to do the same thing in your business so we're doing a challenge ten grand is on the line plus me and tyler will should be in your corner as growth advisors you would just need to go to b hyped dot com slash m m and you either start a your newsletter or you move your current newsletter over there and five finalist will get picked pitch me and tyler sort of like shark tank and the winner gets ten grand so go to b dot com slash m m that's b dot com slash m m to enter the challenge today i wanted to ask you about this do because you you put out this great deck or arc put out a great deck and i love this slide so if you're on youtube you'll be able to see this if you're on audio sorry you know go go to youtube and and or spotify and check this out so shit on this slide i'll just describe it so it's basically the cost per mile like how much does it cost to travel to transport a human being one mile and you started like in the eighteen hundreds it's like horse and carriage and you know adjusted for inflation and all that it's not it looks like it's two dollars and ten cents to travel a mile when you're bet when you're on horse and carriage then you know you get the the ford you know henry ford era and you're at a dollar ten and basically for like i don't know almost a hundred years it's been roughly the same number it's been a dollars ten to travel a mile and your estimate is that with self driving cars where you don't have a driver in there and you're on an electric self driving car that the cost per mile could drop to your estimate is a quarter so you know four times cheaper than what it currently costs and what it has cost for the last hundred years did i summarize your slide correctly that is correct that is correct and you know when we first did this research we too were astonished with that wait a minute it costs the same inflation adjusted that that and then one of the reasons for that is because the the automobile matured fairly quickly right and we're all about rights law rights law tries to understand okay you've got this new technology you're starting from a low base for every cumulative doubling in that base so from one to two two to four four to eight for every cumulative doubling cost decline at a consistent percentage rate for each technology well the internal combustion engine is mature and so it has no shot against evs even though i not i know that's not the prevailing wisdom in this political climate or i'm just using economics and and learning curve so technology yep sorry what do you mean by it has no shot you mean like no shot in what sense the cost comparative comparison or just nope because of the chart you just showed you can't get that cost down any lower the there there are no more cumulative doubling everybody's got one you know as a bit of an exaggeration and in the emerging mark as they don't but they're not gonna be paying up for for internal they're gonna be looking for the cheapest solutions to cars and those gonna be electric and the part that the part that i didn't get was so okay great the cost is gonna go down because it's a self driving electric vehicle okay i get that i could see why the cost goes down and i assume when the cost goes down the demand goes up oh it's cheaper to travel more people travel it's gets selected over all the others more expensive ways to travel but the estimate you have where it's like the cyber taxi revenue i think you have autonomous revenue is sort of like in the what did you say you said ten trillion dollars or something like venture global yeah solely right now if i just take uber lyft door dash like kind of the the revenue of all those companies which today i would say ride sharing is not like a new idea it's pretty pretty prevalent i think uber at forty billion you add lyft that's another six billion and then door does about ten billion so like the total of all three of those companies is only in the like fifty sixty billion range but you're saying but that is even different from what we're talking about here they are not autonomous and they are not in the pole position i mean door dash will harness autonomous that's very interesting one because we think delivery is with especially with drones and rolling robots and everything is very use case but uber and lyft are not in the pole position for this new world right right but i guess what i'm saying is that's what's spent today on taking rides from a a ride like a a push a button and get a ride service see why would why is self driving gonna be twenty times more revenue generated why is it gonna be ten trillion when all of those add up to sixty billion right what we're doing is moving from a very narrow a subset of transportation called ride hailing today to all of transportation right so we're we're moving the entire market to autonomous to get that number they're a very small slice very very very small and in fact was so interesting in san francisco i think that way moe we're finding research is showing that people are willing to wait longer and pay more for a way right then for a uber lyft and i believe this has already happened the number of miles even though in san francisco way is geo fence and lyft is not the number of miles in san francisco the san from francisco metropolitan area that way is driving per day has surpassed lift and is heading for uber isn't that remarkable people are willing to pay up now that's not in our eight to ten trillion we assume that sure they'll start maybe right at or below the prevailing prices for uber and lyft but they will drop over time to that twenty five cents so starting in the two dollar and it surge pricing you know it can be eight dollars per mile starting two ish dollars to fifty maybe and dropping to twenty five cents twenty five cents is at scale right so that's the eight to ten trillion dollar and you know just think about i mean i would prefer to take a uber today even though i have i have two tesla and and i love them but i still have to pay some attention on the road right right i'm curious how much of the tesla market cap i think tesla was one point three year point four trillion how much of that is elon meaning if i took elon off the company if elon went to sleep for the next twenty years and we we weren't gonna have elon running running the company would you keep your position the same way and and how i guess just a pie chart right of that one point three trillion and what do you think that number goes to if there's no elon well if you had asked the question like five years ago the answer would have been different but i think what has happened and one of the reasons elon has spent so much time doing other things some of which people didn't agree with is because i think he feels they have pretty much solved the last mile in f and if they have done that then they're going to capture the robo taxi opportunity they're going be able to scale we would not however start incorporating humanoid robots in the way we we haven't done much yet in our twenty six hundred dollar price target and we'll update that we usually update it each spring for public consumption and so we have very little for humanoid we'd probably be be much less optimistic on humanoid robots and so we wouldn't put as much in as we perhaps will with elon at the helm right wonderful well kathy i appreciate you coming on it's fun to hear some of your stories is good to hear you know your take on some of the tougher questions so i appreciate you doing this yeah thank you sean and thank you for the tougher questions they're important thank you for giving me a platform on which to answer those questions because it is important it is important great well thank you go hope do it again i feel like i could rule to world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a goal less travel never looking back alright let's take a quick break because as you know we are on the hubspot podcast network but we're not the only ones there's other podcast podcasts on this network too and maybe you like them maybe you should check them out one of them that wanna draw your attention to is called nudge by phil ag and whether you're a marketer or a salesperson and you're looking for the small changes you could make the new habits you could do the the small decisions you could make that will make a big difference that's what that podcast is all about check it out it's called nudge and you can get it wherever you get your podcast