How Alex Hormozi Gets Other People To Build His $100M+ Empire

highest returns on capital we get as entrepreneurs is talent like full stop where else do you get ten x twenty x hundred x return so reliably if i'm thinking from the like i really have to fill this role angle it's like usually not the right person if i'm thinking like how don't even care a role for this person i have to get then it's usually the right person once you get to like five million in revenue that's what you have to become as a collector of people it's pattern recognition but especially when it comes to talent you have to grow fast and i do think that's a virtuous cycle the faster you grow the more where tell you get which grows you faster and so it can also be vicious in the other direction it's mostly vicious in the other direction yeah yeah yeah i'm hiring for about six or seven rolls what mistakes you think i'll likely make like if somebody comes in as a c level exec and has no network of people that they've worked within in the past that's weird who have you hired recently that is significantly better than you or has taught you something who takes you to school this is something that i can only say now with fourteen years of business experience which is i feel like i could rude where i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a day's off on a less travel i just like i think you sean does this as well use think in frameworks i don't think like that at all that does not come naturally to me and whenever i hear you or we have a mutual friend ryan dice and ryan was like you he he was like make me feel like a jerk he was like you don't think in frameworks like how do you learn something and then think how you're gonna teach it to your team or whatever and i'm like i don't know man i'm like a ne thought like i just kinda like float by life sometimes times and i just like i don't like reflect and think in a framework but you do that i think frameworks happen when you have to re teach or reuse the same thought process over and over again and so rather than arriving the same decision set you create a framework to give yourself mental shorthand and so i think it's just like like i i i created the scaling what like you at the implementation workshop like the mo six or whatever it's like more metrics market model money and then our i model there's you know four off shoots and then finally manpower so it's like these are the six reasons that people get limited in their business right and that was because i had to think like okay i have done so many q and a calls there has to be there is a decision treat like it might be more complex than i thought it was but there is a decision tree that i'm going through and so just actually crystal that and so you you totally thinking in frame you just haven't documented them that's my that's my two cents that's my opinion well like you had this cool like i've been watching your i think i told you the day i was watching your content not on tactics of making money but on tactics of leadership and management and you had this cool thing called the diamond yeah that's great it was like basically for the listener it was like if you have an employee who's not doing what you want them to do they're either they don't know what you want done they don't know how to do it they weren't motivated or they don't know i think when they you wanna it done yeah or they're still blocking them yeah and when you come up with something like that is that something that you make up or do you read other books and you steal like like cool bits of inspiration and you repurpose them for your need so honest truth i really don't read as much as i probably should almost all my stuff just comes from like me doing it and then saying man there's gotta be an easy way to describe this if i happen to come along some sort of you know if there's some coincidence i see that as cooperation of an idea but yeah no i i really don't consume anyone else's this stuff for for like inspiration i like i have enough shit going on every day have tons of stuff to talk about and so yeah now the the management document was like alright fundamentally people don't do stuff for a reason i have to figure out what that reason is and if there's way that i can a framework that i can have for this conversation that makes it less like how do i not attack the person right rather than say like you are least piece of shit it's like that's as unlikely to be productive and also probably not the real cause of why they're not doing things because most people do prefer to stay employed and also prefer to you know do a good job i think by and large and so it's like if if we take that to be true and i want them as seed instead do today they're like what's getting in the way here it's like well i didn't communicate that i wanted them to do this thing okay well that's on me i didn't tell like i told them but then they're like cool i don't know how to do that that's a training issue okay you know they they they didn't know there was a deadline associated with it's a win problem right and then it's like okay well they knew when to do it they knew how to do it and then knew that i wanted them to do it then it's like okay well then is there something blocking them now the motivation one of like they're not motivated to is like technically correct but it's the last one that i'll go to because most times people are relatively motivated to do now i mind you there's definitely times when that's just not the case right or the how component has a more generalized skill that someone doesn't have so i'll i'll i'll say differently like if in order to do a role my position is like you've probably heard like attitude versus aptitude and that used to bug me a lot because i was like well i can't always be what it is right because it's really just that's there's there's a efficiency and someone's skill set to enter an organization to do a role and so we wanna hire for the small skill deficiency if you're hiring for what people consider low skill labor so if you run an air airbnb b need maids or you have a yogurt chop and you need to have people who do you know clean the counter and like check people out that's very low skill technically but in terms of hiring you're gonna hire for attitude not aptitude and that's just because the amount of skills required to train someone on attitude far outweigh the skills it takes to take somebody who's already friendly knows how to show up on time can smile say hello makes chi chat teach them how to use a cash register and clean thing could take like two hours like it's not a lot of training in order to do that role and so it doesn't make sense to hire someone for aptitude like i've i've worked a cash register before but i'm am a dick it's like well that's not gonna be very like i'm gonna have to train it not be a dick it's not worth it on the flip side if you wanna have the number one ai researcher in the world if that guy's a bit of a dick then you could probably work with him on being a little bit you know better at communicating with the team you're not gonna take the person who was you know the yogurt yogurt store cashier register assuming they take note you know they're not on the side doing all this stuff and make them they're want ai researcher and so it's like we always just oh should at least in my opinion hire for the person with the small skill deficiency and then we have to ask the question is the business owner given that skilled efficiency is it worth us or worth our resources to train them and so i i take the business decision that i think at every skill is train it's just is it worth training like are there other people i get higher returns on in which case great i'll use them and that for me is fundamentally like why i would say that over my career the biggest change in terms of my hiring practices is i i hire far more for general intelligence now the intelligence will allow someone to bridge the skill gap faster and so it's a return on resources for where they are versus where they need to be whether it's a quote attitude issue or quote hard skills issue but i see soft skills and hard skills is just skills wanna you know hard skills are easy easy to define and measure soft skills are just hard to define and measure but they still are def and measurable and so i want somebody as high intelligence because i define intelligence as rate of learning and so if i can get someone who has a high rate of learning versus somebody else maybe that person starts a little bit behind but in six months they're gonna pass the other person who might have experience and so again it all depends on like what the timeline is if i take a toddler i can get them to be an adult in eighteen years would be perfect but i know if i have eighteen years to wait and so you know that's that's kind of my general rubric when when you're hiring for smart people how do you figure out their smart really good question i think the quality so couple of things so the the the quality of the questions that they ask let's go deep each one so the quality of questions that they ask okay what's a high quality question so if someone said hey i noticed that you guys have this media brand here and you have this advisory practice here what's revenue retention around that is there's another vehicle that you guys have considered that you know isn't in the pipeline right now i'd be like wow that demonstrated that they did a fair amount of research and they were able to take a complex stop between these two things and and asked me about it so like that's a great question whereas if someone says like you know what's the five year vision of the company i honestly think there's a bad question i just see that it's like kind of a generic and if few questions someone one might ask and if that's not already answer online which you know the the the pros and cons of our situation similar to you is that a lot of my stuff is public and so i expect somebody to come in with better than generic questions because i've already answered generic question public hey everyone really quick if you're enjoying this episode on ceo stuff so del having hard conversations with your team hiring then i've got something for you so the team at hubspot they actually went and put together a bunch best practices that sean and i use in our own companies and they put it together in something that's really easy to read and understand and so if you wanna just save yourself ten years of headache and heartache then you should check it out i wish we had this long time ago or to help me a lot but there should be a qr code on your screen that you can scan or a link of the description so check it out it's totally free and totally awesome okay and so what was the second one oh when they d a problem that they're solving in terms of what they're thinking so i mean this is this to be fair this isn't like my invention but like in the consulting world people do cases for a reason right they wanna hear how like okay if i need how many you know how many ping pong ball sit on a seven forty seven right this is a common question they would ask in you know a college if interview not because they care about the answer they care about how you think through getting the answer answers that demonstrates a level of horsepower and so for us i would say a practice that dot com we use is posted our higher level and leadership roles is we actually instead of presenting them hypothetical quote cases we actually present them with the real cases and so you know worst case we get free consulting best case we get somebody who is capable of implementing that solution that they just came up with and so if they can use frameworks that i wasn't aware of i've experiences that i'm not aware those things will come out in that you know complex you know issue that we're dealing with but it's also at least like way more interesting of an interview for me because now like they're solving my problem so i'm like way more engaged so does that mean that like the hiring manager or maybe you would have someone at the company has like a generic description of the company and what some of the numbers are and maybe they're like fake numbers even and then each role will have a specific problem that you need help solving for at the company and they get like a google doc like a two pager in advance and it's like prepare your thoughts send it to me in advance i'm gonna read it and then we're gonna have a discussion about it so i'll differentiate this by level of role and type and so i'm talking because right now i'm like knee deep in like c level like interviews so it's like what i'm thinking with right now if we're trying to hire an editor or a salesperson those are roles that are super repeated and as a result have incredibly structured you know interview processes and whatnot and so for those like for a salesperson for example it's like we're going to send a script to every candidate that we wanna invite to a group interview first and so they're gonna get the script ahead of time and we wanna hear them do you know a a one minute two minute sound bite of the script so if they if they didn't even take the the time to like go through a a few times like they're gonna sound horrible so immediately either they don't have the skill and they don't have the work ethic of either way we can weed those people out and we can tell within a couple of minutes so we don't need to waste a thirty minute call and somebody who wants to be a salesperson we can have ten people on the call one or two minutes and we can find out if someone's got a little bit of game from there it's like okay then we'll say hey you mess this thing up tweak it try it again when we do that we could just see how coach they are how much ego they have and how quickly they can learn intelligence i actually read a book that you suggested the guy who found hubspot sales team wrote that book and i where you do the same thing here and in the book he actually says that iq is the is the number one he was like charisma is important but it's not the most important thing it's ability to learn quickly and i think part of that also because like they were selling to business owners and you know so do we and most most of our portfolios is b2b to and so like if if if if a salesperson is being like out gun consistently by you know the people that they're getting on the phone with people on the phone feel like they're talking to somebody in idiot and can't actually help them solve their problem and so yeah i think general intelligence is such an important part but like honestly it's it started there but like i just sit across the organization like show me exceptional organizations that employ dumb people like it's i mean there are some but especially in the in the in the work that we type that we do b to b and higher level you need horsepower so in terms of intelligence like rate of learning and we can actually demonstrate them learning on a small level and that works same thing with editors we follow a very similar process here's some raw footage send us a clip back with your edit we can look at just the final output and that allows us to be more objective about like some people don't present well but that doesn't mean they're bad editors and i think like interviewing itself is a skill just like anything else and i don't need somebody's of these great interview i need somebody's these great editing right and so trying to pull that apart and something that bayless taught me that's been really helpful like for me lately has been she's like some people are incredibly smart but are not very good at communicating and depending on the role they might not have as much need for that level of communication and so that's where it gets a little bit more nuanced but i wanted the other way around like i've actually talked to people that are very charming and they communicate wonderfully and i'm like i can't fall victim to this you're actually idiot i don't think you know what you're doing i've hired these people before what was it there was a it was a like always go for an ugly surgeon or something like that but yeah there's some there's some razor i i just wanted to put my my little claim out there which is like i by no means claim that we are a perfect at hiring or anything like that which just like everybody we take our lick but i would say the hardest ones are always leadership because you have fewer like you might appreciate this whenever i whenever i go to room of entrepreneurs i say hey who here is on more than is is on their second business or beyond and like almost the whole room race of their hands i'm like okay cool now of those of you who are on your second business and beyond who here your current business grew way faster or past your first businesses and like almost the entire room race of their hands and i always think like so why is that and so i think that at the most basic level it's pattern recognition but especially when it comes to talent and so like if you think about building like to say a million dollar business it's like first you have us you have some marketing function you have some sales function you have some delivery function you know whatever you know across the board and for the first time ever when as soon as you know maybe a million maybe it's three million a or whatever it is like it's not you anymore like somebody else has to do some of this stuff and so you you get your first pattern recognition of like oh this is somebody who can do some advertisers this is some person who can do some sales this is the person who can do some low level management this is person who can do some you know some delivery or whatever and so and you basically keep struggling and keep plateau at that level until you find that one person who's like competent and then you're like oh my god you could do the job this is amazing and then the business grows until that next level you know that next train and so then across the board by department one by one it's like you have these six month twelve month periods where you go through interviews and interviews and hiring and onboarding just to see if this person's confident and then whenever they're not you're like i have to start over again and then the business basically stays where it's at and so i think that i think the the the more experience we've had on each of these roles of like this is what you know a sdr looks like this what sdr manager looks like this is what a closure looks like this is what a senior closure looks like this is what a closing manager looks like this is what this is what a a a director of sales looks like this what a vp of sales looks like like it took me time to learn each of these levels and a obviously do that across departments but then after that point when you guard these new the new businesses you after you're not even building the business you're just assembling it yeah and that's becomes that's that's actually quite frustrating not frustrating but it's a hard lesson to learn because after if we gotta to generalize it at my guess is somewhere around five million or maybe like a million a year in profit or maybe half a million year profit honestly like there's this i i grew up go to catholic school and there's this like one of the most famous scenes of the bible is like jesus telling peter's is like you are you're no longer a fisherman you're gonna come and work with me and you're gonna be a fisher of men and i think like once you get to like five million in revenue that's what you have to become as a collector of people and that is jarring right because that's not typically why i love people love start their businesses but norton makes up to grow past five million i don't know where that number is gonna be but you start just having to collect human beings no it's the game and and i think a lot of is just a pattern recognition around behavior traits and skills where you have to just say like oh i know what this vp i know what like i had a vp of sales they were awesome what does this person look like here i also think and this is something that like i can only say now with like i guess fourteen years of business experience i'm just beginning to to reap this which is the snowball of talent which is like if you've had multiple businesses and you've had good outcomes and you treated people well over an extended period of time some people start following you from thing to thing right and then you start to have this core team that just like they're like they're good like and then when you do the next thing like they're all with you and i think that like i i don't know but i would imagine that in twenty more years like the team of talent of those people who just prefer to operate the way we operate and like like the culture that we have and like each other it's more like like if somebody comes in as a as a c level exec and has no network of people that they've worked with in the past i'm like that's weird like you don't have anyone from all the past roles who you've worked with through either a you think is a stud which is weird that you don't think anyone in stud well alternatively you think they were stub but they don't wanna come to like your new thing because you're not a good leader and so that's a great like litmus test in terms of like how good of a leader is this person is like who do they have in their in their black book because we need to build out this function quickly and i'm expecting you to bring some of that table who have you hired recently that is significantly better than you or has taught you something because you're in the role now where you have to do all the talking and a lot of the teaching for your audience and at your workshops and with the companies that you work with who takes you to school sharon s trans when your president he's so knowledgeable on the i mean he's so knowledgeable in a lot of different things but like you know he said two he said two plus billion dollar companies and so obviously acquisition is you know the third that you know we're shooting for depending on you know when we have our third party validation but basically it's like the bigger the company gets i feel like the better he gets you know what i mean like the more in his wheelhouse he is in terms of like data pipelines infrastructure real time dashboards how can we like how can how can finance get weaponized i would say that leila like shrunk so good at the finance function and understanding just like just tax ramifications entity structure like just a lot of the things that i you know for me my my my acumen is on like do we let people know about it do we get them to get us money for it how do we make sure that they really like it and tell their friends like that has been basically the core of my skill set does that not is the is the last thing you said there is that product yeah yeah exactly and then but like everything outside of that is definitely not what i would say like my core core like leila is so good at that like a lot of what we're were talking about there is me somewhat relaying leila you know like or you know leila layla is mo around people and people in talent but sean is so good at like enterprise are structuring just like a lot just a lot of the things that you know a public ceo would be good at and that's and that's what he comes from but he's also was like and i would say like from an observation personally like the true a a a talent one they're not employees they are partners and they see themselves as partners and if you don't see them as partners then they are not a a plus you know how do you treat a partner differently than an employee like how would i know if i have a partner well i think if you go to them because you're not sure what to do and they're giving you advice to me that's a partner if you're constantly directing them and saying this is what we're gonna do this is what we're gonna do there's nothing wrong with that but they're not a thought partner and i also use that as a great litmus test for like the true level executives that we have is like do i want to talk to this person about this complex problem if i don't seek their advice then it means that i don't see them as a value add and so then they're not like they're they're not super central which is not good but yeah so i think that and then the other piece and this is something again i feel like i've i've learned more recently so i'm super deep in sea level stuff right now but it's clouds to dirt so vertically integrated full stack skill sets and so like i think like the best sales leaders can go like they can hop on the phone and get a cold lead to book an appointment from an sdr str level all the way to building sales strategy of like which starts to merge into marketing right it's like what what kind of messaging you when you look at kind of avatars have the highest likelihood to buying our stuff how can we weave that into our process and our scripting how can we you know cut our training time and onboarding new rep like they're really thinking about the sales organization but they can also do almost every job and i just have yet to find like truly exceptional people that aren't full staff today's zip episode has brought you by hubspot because using only twenty percent of your business data is like dating somebody who only you in emojis first of all that's annoying and second you're missing a lot of the content but that's how most businesses are operators today they're only using twenty percent of their data unless you use hubspot that's when all your emails your call logs your chat messages to turn into insights to help you grow your business because all that data makes all the difference learn more at hubspot dot com so you right now because of your size you're competing and and i'm in the type of person you need you're competing with a lot you're in a very competitive industry in terms of talent yeah yeah and so i i imagine you're competing against some of the ai guys you're competing against a lot of tech companies and the value and pete t and the value that they provide i had a guess is just lots and lots of money which i think you have the ability to do that yeah we pay but they also have the ability to offer like equity for this like lottery ticket maybe i don't know what else but i'm sure there's many things that they offer that you can't what do you have to offer to them other than market rate or above market rate money yeah it's growth and impact like if you were to ask everybody in the company acquisition come with the number one thing that they come forward its growth like they like none of those companies are grow like not none a lot of those companies aren't growing at the rate that we're growing and so there's so much career advancement and opportunity we very merit bureaucratic and so like anyone can come here and move up independent of age you know even even independent of tenure like we had a guy who came here ninety days ago and got a very large promotion after coming in at a pretty high role already just because he demonstrated you he was great we're like great we have this opening we think you'd be the best fit and the growth is the the revenue of the company which then means you pull people up higher rolls yep then basically in order to attract a plus talent you have to you have to grow fast yeah i mean yeah yeah yeah you have to grow fast and i do think that's a virtuous cycle which is like the faster you grow the more tell it you get which grows you faster and so like it can also be vicious in the other direction it's mostly vicious in the other direction yeah yeah shit you're shrinking and you have no money to give people yeah gets it gets but you are like a lot of businesses are like growing only twenty or twenty percent of a i know something like yeah fine but mediocre number and it's like where do they start if they don't have growth in order not growth in terms of just the money to pay people but growth in order to impress the right people to join them i think it all depends on what like the opportunity and the level of like the pool that you're competing against you know like if you are an ai true ai you know company you know it is super competitive on the flip side though like if someone's gonna start a new division for us i can just say like i can guarantee you demand not a lot of people can do that and so like it's not a question of whether this will work or not is it's is this the best use of the demand that we have and so it becomes an opportunity cost question but a lot of people in some ways it's like it's less risky to come to ac q because we have so much demand and there's just there's so much opportunity that's basically it like if you're working for jimmy said you know use a different brand like mister beast like he has virtually a limitless demand and so if if if he's like hey can you help me spin up whatever pick pick random thing if if mister beast was gonna say hey let's start an umbrella brand it doesn't mean like he for sure will sell umbrellas it's just not the best use of his resources right and so it's like we need somebody who can come in and recognize the best vehicle for for the demand that we have and then be able to obviously execute it on it but a lot of people don't have that like built in guaranteed you know they just don't have that and so that becomes actually significantly risk despite you know what other quote perks might exist and so it's like you've guaranteed demand you basically guaranteed growth as as as fast as you can grow we can grow and that's and we also still pay exceptionally well and so with without you know those three put things put together we can get very very good talent and there's also people that are just very mission driven like we have a lot of people who come in and they're like i've consumed stuff for years and i saw the the recruiter reached out to me and i was stoked and that that was it like there's just in some ways it's like you know private equity number seventeen it's like they're all it's almost it's just comm commodity like the their business is monetize it's just not that interesting and so they have to compete on price and so their price is their comp whereas if you have a value proposition like what's the what's the grand slam offer from an employee perspective rather than a grand slam offer from a product perspective because it's still the exact same process of acquiring talent as it is to acquire customers it's just a reverse funnel what mistakes do you think most people make when it comes to hiring oh man or maybe you could say maybe it's answer it differently i'm hiring at about six or seven rolls what mistakes you think i'll i'll likely make what what's the role or what us from the roles yeah so we could say what's like a really a salesperson what's a that's a simple one but i'm hiring other roles so i'm hiring chapter leads so we have thirteen chapters that we my business is based in and we're having hiring people to manage each chapter i mean the easy answer is settling but it's so tough because there's there's trades because these things don't exist outside of time you know it's like i have to fill this role and i wanna find somebody especially if obviously for us at the seal level because that's what's top mind for me it's like i have to have somebody that when i'm on the phone with them i'm thinking i have to have this person and if i don't have that but i'm like man i really need this role and so if if i'm thinking from the like i really have to fill this role angle it's like usually not the right person if i'm thinking like i'd even care if ever a role for this person i have to get them in it's usually the right person are you willing to pay them more than you originally thought was would be yes a hundred percent not i have a question have you ever have you ever been like i gotta come up with enough money like i hope i can get enough sales to afford this person be but i have to have them i haven't had the second part because we're a super cash positive company so like that hasn't been a problem i mean fundamentally as long as i can just pencil out the roi of the role then yeah i'll do it i mean it's just a return on capital what's what what's your desired return though amazing oh yeah well it's like i mean it's i so google sheets allow you to put amazing in equal it's amazing mindset i think i think the highest returns on capital we get as entrepreneurs as talent like full stock like what where else do you get ten x twenty x you know returns hundred x returns and and and can do so reliably like talent is one of those places you can do it i will also say that typically the higher up the org the higher the arbitrage are you fast we continue to get faster i'll say that i think we get faster i would say that our firing practices do somewhat rely on the constraint so like sometimes you know label says this but like some fires aren't aren't kitchen fires they're like the the the trash and the driveway on fire it's like it's a problem like we'll get to it but it's not the thing that's limiting the business and so if we have somebody who's not as good as they should be but they're not to roll this right now like limiting the company it's probably not gonna be our first priority to to to to take them out but as soon as that becomes the constraint then it like quickly gets under and then it gets handled have you ever followed day port bart support yeah yeah like you know he's quirky right he's crazy he one of his jokes but it's out of joke he's like i don't fire people he's like i just i don't wanna fire people and if they're a loser i'll just keep paying them and they're gonna sit the corner and be a loser but i don't fire anyone and i kinda thought that was hilarious it's funny because he's a content company and he gave a content out of it and get roi out of like just based front of someone who wants a fire but i was like shocked that that would be his take on it because they seemed like a pretty brutal guy not brutal guy but it seems like very blunt and he has no problem firing people and he was like i do i suck at it i don't like the confrontation i don't like people feeling bad it's so i just don't do it i rather lose money and when i asked you about firing i thought that you're were gonna be like yeah like i fire fast but i sensed a small bit in your voice where it sounded like potentially you were slow to fire because maybe i'm i'm i'm reading too much into your sentiment or your total of voice but it was like i just don't like it well don't think anybody likes it i think we're we're fast if it is the constraint of the business and clearly that person is the one limiting us like we will not sacrifice the company's growth and the opportunity of all the people who've trusted us with their careers to to not have a you know a a comfortable conversation there's also levels of this and so like let's say there's like you know red yellow green right if someone's like well green they're great fonts so basically jet maybe like a yellow orange red as she's as the three levels for me like if somebody's just not doesn't have the complete confidence but it's not like they can still do their job but they're not doing it as well as they should and they're definitely not gonna grow and they can't take on new opportunities then that's to me is like a yellow if they're like for sure like they can't actually do their their their role right now that's an orange if red is like you can't do the role right now and that thing is required for us to grow and so that's that's kinda like i would say like it's it's a combination of like what does the business need and how incompetent is the person and so the rates of firing i think would depend on both those things obviously we wanna like in a perfect world we get everyone out who's not a fit as soon as humanly possible it's just that sometimes some people do turn it around with good feedback and coaching and that probably happens half the time like i guess asking myself a question like why do i feel bad about making this decision and then trying to make sure that i'm not acting in the global bad for local good like local versus global like i think about that as like my way of trying to break through that like terrible feeling you have and like i have to let this person go say well i don't i'm choosing short term comfort over over a long term discomfort and i think most of life can be boiled down to people doing that over and over again guys they take the local win they take the short term win for the global loss it's like if you do that enough times you get a global a global catastrophe and so that's what i try to avoid and i just put the the greater good as the frame as my like little my little sp for spiritual armor if you will of going into it knowing that like this person might could upset and this might even you know dramatically inconvenience this person's life in the short term but like i owe to the other zillion people who also have put their you know their careers their their their lives in in you know my hands to a degree from a decision making process like i owe it to them and so that's what kinda gets me over the hump to pull the trigger faster the founders podcast super heard that by david sen yeah it's awesome i love it and i love reading biographies of like historical entrepreneurs and a common thing that i get from the founders podcast is patience and basically like doing something for decades that's another thing that i've gotten from your content which is like things take a long time they take longer than you think it's gonna be harder than you think and i believe that to be true but then also i see people like you and if you go to your youtube i think on every description it was like age twenty six i was here age twenty seven i was here age and i'm like i don't think he was very patient that that doesn't read that that that doesn't read like a patient person because i think you if i remember correctly i'm just making this up i think you've started acquisition dot com at something like the age of thirty one and then by like thirty three or thirty four you had the seminar business that you guys do and it was probably doing many tens a million probably eight figures mid eight figures in business and very profitable and i'm like well that doesn't seem like something that was mean that was pretty fast how do you talk about being patient all the time but you're moving at a a wicked a wicked pace and getting results quickly i think the patience is relative to the outcome that you're going for and so like if you if you're trying to climb everest right your rate of ascension in terms of altitude is gonna be significantly faster than somebody who's trying to climb a foot the percentage growth might might be the same though and so a patient person might be willing to grow at one two three four percent per year towards their ultimate everest but just that four percent of everest is significantly faster than four percent of a foot and so the absolute difference will be different but the relative difference which is like what i'm quote measuring myself against is where i feel patient and i think that's where the whole macro you know macro speed sorry macro patients micro speed is is super like we still need we still have deadlines so still move the ball forward but still to act the urgency we still have to ask the question like what would it take in order to do this in half the time would it take for us to do this in a fist of the time and can we do that let's do that and i think i honestly see a lot of the job of the manager or the driver or the operator depending think what term you wanna use as doing that which is just consistently pulling like pulling the future forward faster and like when you're having you know even at the tactical level like you're having a team meeting and you say hey when we can get that done by they will give you a date and then like the fall like you know level one manager level zero manager doesn't ask when they're when there's one the deadline is a level one manager would be like we're just accept the deadline like a level two manager would be like well what else do you have that's blocking you right now from getting that done and they might say we'll these three things and at that point they i might say well this is more important in those things so do this first and then with that new knowledge what is your new deadline and they might say like okay instead of end of week i can get it you know two days earlier than that it's like okay how many actual hours do you think this work will take and they might say like think it'll probably take four hours and it's like okay well it's noon now so why is in at four o'clock today right and i think somebody who's willing to continue to ask this questions and they're like well i could do it you know today and i just wanted to give myself some time it's like well why right and so i think that's that consistent pulling forward and the thing is like it's almost like many confrontational conversations that i think are required in order to move an entire organization at break next speed i mean i look at you elon a lot you know as i asked you know inspiration from a business perspective and you know all of his competitors talk about that just like the man sense of urgency that that he carries and i think a lot of it is that it's just like consistently challenging like what would it take and is it worth us doing like is it worth it for what it would take if the answer is yes then let's do it and a lot of people kind of like they make their decisions within their frame or their realm of reality when that's not based on anything besides their own con some arbitrary comment of what they think it should take i've always been like curious as to how people get to that level because like for example i was a a track athlete in high school in college and i remember thinking in high school on the shit because all i was so much better than like everyone else and then you like get around division guys and you're like oh my god like i'm i'm a i've nothing like there so many levels and and then you like get risen up to that level now or you don't or you get hurt and you just don't you're like oh i'm just i'm not good enough and then when i'm hanging out with guys like you or when i think of elon musk who have these like super intense things like i'll read something you put out you're like i wanna get a new lead i called them in sixty seconds and if i can't do that i hire someone and her full time job is calling someone in sixty seconds and i'm like that makes so much sense why did i think that calling someone in fifteen minutes was adequate and this is just a really small example but then it goes all the way up to like building rockets you know where it's like oh i'm not i'm not gonna leave the warehouse for three weeks so how do you think that people get their standards to be raised to this like extreme level like were you around other extreme people and you're like oh my gosh there's so much more to do that's now the standard or do you think that some people are just born extreme and and they they just get there and they bring others to that level i i think it's probably a nature and nurture question and it's to be clear i don't know the answer this is just my two sense i've always been a really intense person like my my father my whole upbringing used to always say like balanced he's like you're so unbalanced you're so unbalanced because like as soon as i'd find something i would just wanna do nothing besides that thing until i had like finished it or you know whatever it was and so i do think there's a component of that the other aspect though is like i for sure have had called beliefs broken you know frame shifts from people who are were ahead of me like me even observing elon you know it it it stretches the horizon of what you know i think we can accomplish and you know it's actually in some ways very refreshing to think about okay you know where was elon when he was thirty six right versus you know fifty six or whatever you know how old he is now and he said had such a exponential like cr career that to me it's like it's actually very like inspiring that it just it just takes time and a lot of i think what takes time for entrepreneurs is there's just so many skills required to be good entrepreneur and you have to be like very good at all of them that's why i see entrepreneurship is the single greatest path of personal development like you get real time feedback that you suck and then at some point most of us on some level get to a level of success and then say like this is enough or i'm not willing to make the trade offs beyond this point in other areas because depends on the entrepreneur that you asked but i would say the vast majority of entrepreneurs want to win the game of life and business a component is one of the games within the larger game of life some people get lost to whatever game they're in or are they just consciously choose that that game is more important to them i mean like steve jobs accomplished a lot i think there's there's been a lot that's been documented about his you know personal life suffering you know as as a result as professional career you could make an argument that he was amazing net positive for humanity but on the micro level he lived a harder existence elon is probably another one of those people a lot of people don't wouldn't want elon life and he says you wouldn't want my life that's probably a lot of my a lot of my like shower time right now is like when you know the price of the thing you want like it's okay to go into a store see something you like and then not buy it why are you crushing that now is it because you just had the huge launch and you like hit hit a milestone that you're like my god i wanted this all time and i finally got it and maybe i didn't wanna as as much as i want or do you feel well i had a confluence of three things happen within thirty days so i had call it a four plus year project come to an end which was a lot of my shower time was around the whole hundred million dollar series and the culmination of the money models launch so that was one there's obviously you know a financial outcome that was you know quickly you know happened at the launch so that's the second thing then third thing is my mother died within thirty days and so it was a very interesting mix of different emotions within a period of time and so i have i i've had a lot of time to reflect on like what are the things that matter most and so like in writing i mean i think everyone's heard the advice like regular and then try to live that way is that most people don't actually take the time to write there in but in writing her eu it was it was interesting to see like what portion if we had a pie chart of this jewel is gonna be dedicated to her accomplishments and she was a relatively accomplished person compared to the rest of it which was about service and character and the vast majority of it was service character and so and thinking about that it's like okay well if i were to a portion my time based on what my eu percentages would be i would probably not have the same pie chart that i do now that being said you know life is has a lot of years and so maybe that slice of pie chart that's the first two or three sentences or whatever might be fifteen years and then there's just another period of fifteen years afterwards or thirty years afterwards that are maybe difference that chart yeah if you if you live right like maybe she had a freak accident so hers was a sudden death and so yeah so that's what i think about a lot is is the trade offs because i think most of like because obviously i have a lot of content that's going out there just because people tend to ask me stuff about hard work and the reason i think i tweet so much about it is because it's always top of mind for me so like i don't have it we talk about it this at being able like i don't have a a content schedule i don't have like a you know i'm looking at trending tweets and thinking oh how do i do my own spin on this like that's not how i make content i tweet whatever is top of mind and the things that come out are the things that i'm thinking about and you gonna kind of like see the the trends of whatever i'm thinking about a specific season but you just stick the aggregate of like a month of tweets like i just thinking about this right now yeah you're like in a lawsuit and you're like talking about like being tough or having grit or like you know like over overcoming a difficult yeah like people betray you and like all this stuff is been part you're making all this money and it's like gratitude you know what i mean yeah and so i think there's two things that i think they furniture entrepreneurship part number one is uncertainty it's just the the absolute kinda like soul crushing uncertainty that is always present throughout your day every day while you're making decisions it's just always this idea like you might lose and you don't know and then the the other component that makes it so difficult is the known quantities that you believe that you're going to have to trade in order to get the unknown i guess there is some uncertainty there too the unknown upside and so it's like we can always quantify the downside the thing that we trade and we cannot quantify the upside and so i think about that a lot because i think a lot of entrepreneurs entrepreneurship you know a lot of entrepreneurs that i see especially common like you the lifestyle entrepreneurs because i get tons of slack from that community and that's okay like i just i just see that as like we all get to whatever level that we're willing to trade tray for but i just see them as trade offs and i think most of the regrets that people have are wanting the upside from a decision or a path not taken without taking into account the downside that they didn't suck this is for the folks out there who have a business that does at least three million dollars a year in revenue because around this point that's when you're able to look up after being heads down for years building your company and you realize two things one you've done something great but you're still a long way from your final destination and two you look around and you realize i am all alone i've out run my peers which means you're now making ten million dollar decisions alone by yourself and that is when mediocrity can creep in my company hampton we solve this problem by getting a room of vetted peers of other entrepreneurs who are gonna hold you accountable call you out on your nonsense and help show you the way because the fact is is that there's only a tiny number of people in your town who know what you're going through and who have been there and they're hard to find the biggest risk is not failing you have a company and it's working you're gonna be fine but the biggest risk is waking up ten years from now and saying shit i barely grew in business and in life and for people like you who are ambitious wasted potential and regret is what we want to help you to avoid we have made so many of these groups and we have a thousand plus members and i know this stuff actually works it can change your life to change mind and i know it will change yours so check it out join hampton dot com what's the pie chart like now i mean i think i think for now it's it's almost entirely business i would say like i probably have fifteen percent that's probably dedicated to like marriage stuff like marriage leila stuff and probably fifteen percent that's dedicated like health stuff so probably like seventy percent work fifteen health fifteen marriage what do you think when you're in the when you're thinking about what it should be do you ever think like why i would like to try on this style or this yeah i think i would love to see a world where like twenty five to thirty percent is business i'd love to see what happens there i also think that there might be like and i and i say this understanding like the position that i'm in tuesday this which is i'm approaching a point where more hours really doesn't like so much more of it at this point will be the leverage of the decisions that i make more than the work that i do and so i think i'm i'm i'm feeling i'm feeling that transition right now and so it might be that could've been earlier though i mean you know i just feel it new for whatever that's worth he's got a good team i guess yeah the team is the team is getting is getting better and better and better we have a huge a huge amount of of true a level talent coming and very excited about that be a lot of the leverage on the decision making and maybe it's just that some of the the bets that i made five years ago have come to fruition and have paid off which can then just give more more leverage right because i mean fundamentally output is just volume times leverage and so i mean i could maybe maybe with if did even more elon still works a lot so if you do a lot of volume in with a lot of leverage you build rockets and build trillion dollar businesses so like you know i i i don't say that thinking that i'm somehow i'm into it twenty five percent business what else oh it would probably just be a more even spread it probably be like maybe twenty five percent you know i probably keep i think health would probably be still around fifteen ish percent i might change what i do there but that i think i have an appropriate amount from the health the health category i assume i'll just i'll i'll bucket leila is just family yeah wife at all i i just think i just think the percentages will change i you know what i'll just say that i don't know what they are i think they will change from what they currently are i feel confident in that what's a non business pursuit that you'd wanna put in there potentially i don't know and i think i i i need i i to create the space in order for that to get filled like i don't think i will have a difficulty in finding things do film my time i think i i don't know you to have any i we're we're buddies but not we're not terribly close but i i don't i've never i we're like we're not that close well we're like we're like i would say we're we're friends but like we've known each other for off and on for a couple years now and i've never seen you shown interest in hobbies like over the like i like history i love if i like buying clothes i think clothes are cool i like cars i like motorcycles like i have like hobbies where i'm like i'm passionate about x y and z but i have never heard of you to like anything other than your wife and working it out and business in business yeah those have been like my big three i would say that i i i i would define myself for the first time in in fifteen year not even fifteen because i wanted to start making money when i was like fifteen so it's i guess it's been twenty one years it's the first time my life where i've i've been open to having other priorities i don't know what they are like straight up i don't know i don't know if they will be and maybe i maybe i'll just discover that i like the life that i have now but it's the first time that i've been like i am open to this mix changing andrew ross so he's got this new book called nineteen twenty nine i i'm in the i'm middle in the middle of reading it i i think you read sites science fiction right yeah it's just surely i like science fiction i like some of the more popular ones but i'm a big history guy and this book nineteen twenty nine it's about the great depression and how it came to be and basically credit had just become a thing so credit gm invented it so you could get a car on a loan and then eventually other appliances on a loan and then sears was like oh we'll do a lay away thing we'll give you credits you can buy clothing and then citi bank which back then was called national bank they said let's do it for stocks and bonds so you can borrow money and we will let you buy stocks and they did it at a ten to one ratio meaning for every ten dollars of stocks that you have with citi bank we're gonna loan you a hundred dollars and so the great depression happened because when the market went under which happens occasionally happened during covid it was just like a domino effect because everyone was incredibly over leveraged and he tells us amazing story about it and there's like probably twenty characters in the book and they're like the jamie diamonds of the time yeah and they give you the day to day life of these characters and it's really fascinating and my biggest takeaway from this book so far well there's been a bunch of takeaways but one takeaway is that the executives of these banks they didn't work that hard and they were like they were the jamie diamonds of the time and their income was the equivalent of a hundred million dollars a year and like one guy had a routine where he's like i'm up at sick i am exercised i'm at the office at ten i'm home by five another guy i had a similar routine as that but then he would take off he took summer off go to europe with his family and going to europe meant taking a three week boat and same with andrew carnegie andrew carter was a popular in the late eighteen hundreds died probably in nineteen twenty or so he did the same thing where he would barely work and i read about some of these like i think brian hall who's the founder of hubspot just tweeted he's like you don't move mountains working in nine to five and all these people yourself included in myself included talk about hard work but i like see all these other examples and i'm like isn't it it crazy how much you can get done by actually not working hard and lately i've been like interested by some of those examples have you ever read about that i haven't read about it but i've definitely observed it with some people that you know are further ahead been than i am i think what's what's always difficult is like do i model the the the top of the amount or do i model the climb like am i trying to extrapolate how someone currently lives for what they did to get there and that one's always a really dangerous one but i try and catch myself on which is like you know we're in different seasons and so i have to make sure that i'm comparing this person's spring you know to my spring not not my winter to their spring well like all these like just i can list so many people where i read these books and i'm like you don't work hard at all what the hell is like what am i doing like ted turner was another guy he he ted turner when he built cnn which made him a multi billionaire he was also like pure professional sailboat racer where he was gone for three months at a time racing sailboat and so anyway i could i could give you so many examples of that it's just crazy when when we let's let's take that for a second because i think that like let's say let's say like within your business let's say that you could find the perfect sam just as a a thought routine right the perfect sam that you could hire and whatever you could pay the perfect sam to do and you could do everything you can do just as well as you can it's like so whatever your current profit is minus sam's compensation if you could do that then you would have almost the same amount of money you have now and maybe in two years perfect sam would grow the pie so that you're making the same or more than you're making right now but you're still not working at all and so if that's the case then it's like we're always like in the hypothetical world where one higher away from somebody you could do one hundred percent of what we're currently doing and the business would be able to continue to grow i think to that point about patience is like but most entrepreneurs are like well i'll i'll find that person i'll give it to that person and then i'll start the next job whereas some other people just say like i'm just not gonna start that next job and then just be willing to let the company continue to grow with the team that i've assembled and i think but like fundamentally if you work or you don't work as long as the business performs these functions it will grow i heard you say something kind of interesting so a lot of people shit on course makers and i was thinking about my life and like i've bought a lot of courses actually and many of them were were not only great they changed my life yeah one of my good buddy's neville had a copy writing course changed my life i took it it changed my life yep and there's been a bunch others have you ever bought or taken any courses and which one if you did was game changing for you the biggest things that have really changed my life was actually like had been had been net like networks of people more than anything like getting in the room with people who are ahead of me within the current realm or even across realms from me that was the stuff that really changed my life the most for sure from the tactical level books courses things like that workshops seminars like those things absolutely like i'm at i am a product of the alternative education world like i have no reservations about that i am some people were able to learn on their own i was willing to pay to learn for people ahead of me and i it was more than more than worth it but i think that the biggest so if basically there's two types of knowledge right you have declarative knowledge would just knowledge about stuff and then you have procedure at knowledge is knowledge how to do stuff the the the courses in diy stuff is predominantly procedural which is here's how you set up landing page so i copy here so you structure a you know a video sales letter or whatever right and then there's that i see that the the the networks affiliation and when you meet people who were further ahead of you those are where you get their quote beliefs broken that's where you learn about stuff that you didn't know was possible and that about stuff could be like i didn't know you could work four hours a week and make that kind of money i didn't know that real estate work that way i didn't know that the insurance industry was so profitable or whatever it is right and those were where i think where i had my order of magnitude increases so it say like my incremental increases in in business were always just you know developing more blocking tackling skills like i have to learn how to do webinar hour i have learned how to do a sales call i have to eat all these things but were the like like the large step step function increases have been through association with people that were just way further their head and we're were like hey man let me tell you what the next five years it looks like if you keep doing what you're doing this week we need to do instead who's on your list of of people who you'd you'd kill to meet and spend and and spend time with our shadow for a day most alone are the obvious ones like i would love to i'd love to shadow elon i'd love to shadow z i'd love to shadow bezos i'd love to shadow i don't know i'd relative to love to try bezos like ten years ago because actually i'm not even sure what his what his working you know what what he's doing he's example blue origin and and he's got you know this thing i think he's got other things going on but so like people who are in the thick of the game i would love to because a lot of it is like how are they thinking like what frameworks are they using to think through these decisions because they've made these decisions a bunch of times so like i would love to just get that framework because if i could apply that to my current state then i would move faster i hear you learn these frameworks and i'm like but that is crazy that he is memorizing this stuff but not just memorizing it but he when i hear him talk about i believe that he actually uses this and in his day to day life and know i i would like to get better at that i'm just amazed at how much information you retain thanks i think that if you are not good at predicting what is going to happen next life will be hard for you and the better you get at predicting what's going to happen next the more you will get what you want and so then being able to predict what's going to happen requires a an accurate framework of how reality works and i think that that's where you know if you've lost everything that you can rebuild it again it's because you accurately review view reality and it wasn't luck you can redo it again and so for me i think a big part of it was like or still is i find like the most people don't know what they're saying most of the time like the vast majority of people spend their time re reg and parody things that they never thought about in saying words that they don't understand because if you ask someone when they say hey i think you should do this i would just feel like to find that or like hey my goal is i want to insert thing like i wanna feel great about myself i be like what does that mean and then they can't define it i'm like well no shit you haven't hit it you can't even define what you're going for right and so i think that the single greatest razor that i have for defining reality more accurately has been removing all sentiment emotion and quote psychology from the equation and only looking at it from a behaviors frame of what can i observe and just say like and so basically like if you were to if you were to you know alien comes on earth or a toddler depending on how you would to see it and say like hey you know what does trust mean right like hey you're not very trustworthy i be like what does that mean to you right and most times people will just say like a bunch of nonsense back you and it's like well of course you don't know like and so i find that that's most people and that's why they can't they can't communicate well and as a result they don't receive communication well from the world because they don't like it's two people saying words that neither of them understand and then they're and then they just roll a dice to see if they get what they want and that's how most people live their lives which is why they don't get what they want they didn't define what they want like the beginning of every one of my books defines terms the beginning of every legal document there's a repetition of definitions and it's like you need that in order to be precise about what you want what's that mean so like defining what a win would look like what does success look like what does a fail look like yeah that that's that those are like the the would say like the big obvious ones but underneath of that is it's like the day to day life that you have it's like you ask your wife it's like i'd like you you'd be more loving towards so what does that mean like for real like what yeah what is you saying the word i need you to love me better mean does that mean hey when i walk in the door can you come and give me a hug that's observable i can see that court witness could say he came in and did that right and so but like again this is like getting his granular everything if we just bring everything down to what is observable in reality that we can all get to agreement that's where like i think the content that i have somehow seems both the same and different from the stuff that's out there they're like man i just you about marketing stuff and like he says things that i know but i i he says in a different way it's like well it's because i just think about like okay what is selling right and then a lot people were like it's a transfer of feeling between two parties you know over a bridge of trust right and i would say something like that fifteen years ago and i would yell at it to sales and i'd be like dude sales is just a transfer a belief over a bridge of trust it's like that sounds amazing there's nice visuals it's like but what the fuck does that mean like how do i go transfer belief over a of i'm go transfer belief over a b bridge of trust and they're like i don't know how to do that it's like fuck course you don't of course you don't i don't either right what you a bridge i need know guy eat fucking bridge who's got a bridge and how do i give them this belief right so and so it's natural to use is it's to use shorthand with language because it's faster transfer ideas except neither party to define the term and that's where a lot of quote miscommunication come from and so i think to be an accurate it's like we have to define terms before we can actually engage in this conversation which is annoying for some people but it's also required if you wanna have like effective communication and so for that whole like salesperson thing it's like what is selling it's increasing likelihood that someone makes a personal decision done that's all it is we just increase the likelihood and so that is your job it's to increase the likely to make a purchasing decision and we know that there's a number of variables that that affect that that that percentage and that's what the ones that that we can affect that we can observe and i think we just leave it there that we get all of this hull of blue and all of the the manifestation and the sync and the the energy and the men you know all this this crap out of there and maybe that's stuff's true but i can't see it so and so how do i transfer it i don't know and so i just talk about the observable world and has made my life so much better and my ability to predict what's going to happen next so much better but this is why i like by the way dale carter how to win friends and influence people very tactical so like the the takeaway that everyone will have for that book well at least one of them will be you say someone's name say name because that's the most beautiful sound in in the english language very tactical and another really tactical thing i love reading that more people should do particularly if you're if you're working at the internet world old school direct response copywriting books so claude hopkins david oli is a little bit newer joe sugar is a little bit newer duh kennedy i love reading those books those books are my favorite because they are the most tactical but they also teach you about life they're also great writers you know who's the best i think is felix dennis have you ever read felix dennis how to get rich yeah dude the best the best writing i've ever read or like dan kennedy who is a copywriter somehow he has books on like management which i'm like don't don't read that book dude he's like in the beginning of okay so in the beginning of the book he's like i don't have any employees because i hate employees but let me read this long book about managing a company and i read it and i'm like you are a ac man but some of your advice is actually quite good but he's so good at telling these stories and he makes them practical which is what a really good copywriter does and so it becomes quite actionable maybe you're gonna take the wrong action but it's very it's very actionable do you ever read those old old school copywriting books i did wanna basically i was when i was in my like rocky cuts with learning marketing i read all that stuff i haven't read much of it lately because i feel like you know like the mid wit meme yeah yeah yeah i feel like the mid midwest meme is one of my favorite memes of all time because it just it's it's been so true for me in so many domains of my life it's like you know when i started lifting it was like ab weight eat protein tri you know what i mean like do it over and over again and that was like that was it right and then i got into like you know prioritization and like you know a volume blocks then you know peaking cycles and like you know you know we have to have under leading periods we have to have like you know this is better for part this better for i get all this like complexity right and then like fast forward down it's just like to just just eat protein add add more to the bar and you know thank your parents for genetics like whatever now of course the comments would be like alex takes testosterone which i've in public about so deal with it and so i think the same thing with marketing and so like a lot of it is your testosterone making more persian was it persian to testosterone i don't know maybe i think it's all genetic is that the pet is being board persian oh if anything i think i think the not where it would would decrease amount of pair i have on my head at least but anyways but yeah but like with marketing it's like it's so much so like no persuasion occurs in the vague like persuasion occurs in the specific and so when it's like oh i i know he he just like if you can articulate someone's pain to them more accurately than they can they will buy what you have to sell without even hearing much about whatever your offer is if someone describes every pain your life and excruciating detail other they're like if this guy knows this much about my pain he has to know how to solve it and what's also nice about pain specifically is that pain is more motivating the promise and so it's also more compliant because if we think about like what like what is a salesperson what is marketing in general like we just simply motivates someone to take action right or we increase the likelihood that they will see this message they take a desired action and so it's like well then where is the basis of motivation comfort from which is a super complex question and so for me motivation comes from deprivation and we have to deprive the prospect or increase their perception of deprivation around the out the you know the action that's associated with whatever that we'll look them to do so the a outcome associated with we're reaction with them to take and so that comes from like when people like the pain is the pitch which is one of my my little ism is like the pain is the pitch like if you if you can accurately do that and it's not about like a fancy words it's not and not at all it's it's you know it's short words short sentences clearly to defined that it takes no brain power to process and yet it still has emotional resonance because of this specificity so like lose weight fast probably worked is the force first weight loss at in nineteen thirty and then everyone was like wow that short words that's amazing but then they had to get like more nuance and so it's like you have to keep breaking words down into like what does that really mean like it's like what like hey so you ever been like the overweight girl who wanted to take the photo instead of being the photo you know what i mean yeah yeah no and that's real like i've ever walked your thighs shapes together have you ever always had a a a cover all when your friends were in bikini like have you felt weird about you know you putting your own sunscreen on have you been like any pictures you said like do you do you duck out when you put your pants on that you used to wear do you keep do you find yourself holding your breath for longer and longer in order to put them on like those are best you know specifics right and like that's where copy is driven which is why you have to know the customer which is why my opinion some of the best marketers like the truly coded marketers can advertise pain that they have not experienced but the vast majority of marketers or who are good and specific spaces know the avatar because they are the avatar or at least worthy avatar one time we i had this designer and when i lived san francisco working for my company to hustle and we had this like new product that we were testing and it was like three hundred dollars a year and she made this beautiful page and i'm like you guys are insane the design of this means nothing and they're like what do you mean they're like they're like i spent so long of this logo i'm like oh my god watch this and i like wrote out a google doc and then i at the bottom of the google doc i had a link to an event bar event bright page because that was the fastest way i i could create like i was like this isn't actually an event but it's just the easiest way that i can accept your money and once i get your money then i wanna send you the product manually the most junky thing ever we drove something like five thousand dollars of facebook ads to each of the things the pretty one drove it was like next to nothing just the google doc i made fifty thousand dollars off of i think only five thousand dollars in ad spend and i'm like please listen to me copy matters more than anything now if you can marry copy with good design then that's that's ideal and i was like go and look at like i was like i don't know man go look at like apple's page for the iphone like it's the most known product of all time there's tons of words and also there's tons of images and an image it really is worth the thousand words i was like go look at kindle go look at the amazon listing for kindle you literally only see copy there's ten thousand reviews and it just copy copy copy copy copy is the way to go and i was trying to like convince my team and that was like the final example i was like i told you just good words can sell way better than anything else yeah i agree also i actually think that that that's true with wisconsin as well like if you're an educator to be clear if you're an entertainer that's different but like if you're an educator which most you know b2b b anybody's a business whatever most businesses are if they make content is more on the educational side whether you're plumber or otherwise like you tell people about toilets and then people buy stuff right i did this experiment with my team because sometimes my my editing team gets like they get cute you know they get they they wanna get fancy so i said hey this next one we're gonna do the entire thing on an iphone alright so the whole thing is on an iphone the audio is crap that it's shaky a guy's holding it no tripod like no that's all it was but it was just about like a concept that i knew was gonna do well and it got like you know one point seven or something you know almost two million views from that video and i was like we spend so much time and post on some of these videos and like it doesn't matter now it might matter a little bit it might matter ten percent but are we appropriate appropriately allocating the resources towards the things gonna get us the highest return and the answer's almost always know because the words are the hard part the words you have to think and that's what most people avoid you know the last time i talked to was about ten days ago or something like that and i needed someone to i wanted to talk to you today because i enjoyed their conversation i was like i don't wanna plan i just wanna have a a conversation with alex and like already made joe like i want you to talk in somebody i was like that's the exact opposite of what i want i don't want you to talk to any sound i just wanna see what's up and just catch up with you and i'm happy we did that no i am too man alright i feel want i can just read like five tweets in a row and then sam can react yeah you're you're a fortune cookie yeah that's what you are you're a fortune cookie would that be better i'll just i'll wait so is that really your writing process do you just like write like one cent one sentences well for tweets yes that's exactly what it is like literally it's that's a hundred percent one do you use chat gb no no i i don't use an ai for for the for the tweets come on you dazzle me why a dime with some lines either sell extremely expensive to a select few or sell something super cheap to everyone in the middle is where people die you're making me weaker of the knees alex keep going you're right poor people stay poor because they want a fast way to get rich if you're in your twenties and wanna stand out do it what you say you're going to do even if no one is there to give you a applause the fastest way to stand out is to put in more effort than everyone else show up early use do your research at a time smile when greet people do more than your fair share follow up quickly work i think is the universal currency of respect and it costs you nothing but can give you everything that was facebook posted yours the other day i liked it well they they repurposed it from my twitter you must first become misunderstood before you can become great yeah man these are great yeah how to win realize no one is coming to save you take responsibility for your current position be willing to sacrifice who you are for who you wanna be the fastest way to become confident is to build evidence build yourself a stack of undeniable proof that you are who you say you are do so much volume that you don't have to doubt whether you can do it or not that one broke the internet yep it's very hard to have a vision when you have bills to pay i said that one at the workshop and like the whole room lit out like an audible gasp and so the team was like alright that one's pre tested we know that one work that one was a a freestyle that was a r you rod dog those a bunch of these were but that one was like word for word i didn't change anything faster way to change your life is to get around people whose minimum standards are your life goals kinda like what we were talking about earlier friendly reminder that feeling lost to anxious and uncertain are good science it means you're pushing past where you know they're called growing pains for a reason do the work tired do the work nervous do the work perfectly do the work even when you don't feel like it because no matter how bad you feel when you start you know exactly how you feel when you finish you have to risk looking broke to get rich you have the risk looking weak to get strong you have to risk looking desperate to get loved you go hold back more dreams and failure and rejection ever will everything you like you just speak in like add headlines this is amazing avoiding people who make it harder for you to achieve your goals is the highest form of self care what do you write all this on i just i just use like an automation tool like just a generic one also one of the ways that i'll do is nicely like a lot of my audience will like hear a live or whatever and then they'll like they'll tag me in a quote that they heard me say and then i'm like oh great so i like quote them quoting me yeah as my yeah i'm like they i thought that was good i'll just say it's like michael scott doing the wayne re quote well i think some of like because part of what we're talking about is is rhetoric right there's the idea and then there's how you communicate it and some of these things have like rhythm to them so it's like when we have opposites you have good and then bad you have you know high and low you've given then get like they're set there's opposites that happen in you know contrast that happens in the words there's typically power threes people like having threes when you have sets repetition iteration those are all things that like if if you're thinking about like okay how can say this in a way that would sound better than just like hey do do hard stuff what orientation of that can i you know combine some of these other kinda of writing elements into it to make it easier to remember i think you're talking about the mid midwest meme i was joking with sean where i was like in the beginning of my career i listened to all motivational stuff and help help stuff in the in the like when i was building my first company that kinda made me you know do did a little something i did not do anything i was like no motivation stuff i just need to get to it now that like i i called this like second mountain stuff which is like i'm now focused on real thrive thriving but also raising a good family and like building a legacy of a company i'm not particularly i mean getting riches or making more money that is a nice i want that no doubt about it but it's like not number one and once i'm in that phase of my life which i am i am back to the motivational stuff totally i think when we change goals we become deprived around some other thing like we noticed a discrepancy in our lives and i think we saw for the greatest discrepancy so like in the beginning like the biggest discrepancy was from me was like i'm broke like as doesn't matter what like i'm broke i can't do anything i can't like at impact i can't support a family i can't i can't i can't live when live like i just all of that so that becomes the glaring hot pain in my life and then like once that's solved it's like okay well what i'm i'm not pain free right like they're still pain and so then you have other things that become the pains of your life and those become the things that you're deprived of i do think that we're exceptionally good at finding problems so i don't think that's gonna like go away i think you just get different problems as as you level up and i will also say like on on a personal note i'm about as happy as i was two years ago as i was probably two years before that like i'm not i'm not like materially different in terms of my like subjective well being and so i think i it's like what else am i going to do and when i also think about these things that quote you know could potentially trust me out or even these opportunities that i wanna pursue i try to fast for the president which was like i'll probably be just about as happy content as i am now which also eliminates a lot of the fo which i think some people suffer from a lot of like regrets of like oh i should have done that there i should ended that up this opportunity should have made that bad i should have dated that girl or whatever your thing is right it's like well you'd probably be about as happier unhappy as show up right now and that actually like has dramatically quell down the amount of attention that i allocate to those paths not taken because they're just completely unproductive yeah but i think people get there like i'm am i'm i'm i'm so happy i've never been happier my whole entire life right now i like my job i love my family i'm happy with my fitness i like living where i live i love my unit my apartment where i live i love living near my in laws i like my team and you know aristotle has this idea of flourishing where you where he was like you have to live a virtuous life like one of the virtue is courage on one end of courage is like being reckless and the other one is being like a pussy like to be i think that's what he said that's that's an exact one yeah and there's like fourteen virtue and like you wanna like be in the middle like which is courage yeah same with like being charitable you know you don't wanna be like os and you don't wanna be tight you wanna be charitable and i was like i'm i'm kind of in that right now i love that and so i'm happier than i've ever been and i think that you have to get in what aristotle also says is you need money to do that he's like you don't need a lot of money but need enough money to own things that make you happy that are beautiful and you also need enough time to have leisure time because leisure times important and what's interesting is like you were saying like that you're you're i think you said you're happy right now but you said you're not gonna be happier probably with anything else i would argue it sounds like you're looking for leisure time actually which is i i didn't we really i didn't realize that until just now since it's talking about aristotle like that's the way like the one thing like hobbies is basically what he said like you need a hobby and business has been your hobby for a long time but maybe like maybe you're that'd be kinda fun to see like what what is actually your hobby gonna be i think i'll problem it's i'll problem like i happiest what i write yeah and so i will probably write a book that has no real financial benefit from me so i'll probably end bread a book about some of the topics we talked about today around like learning and behavior because it's something that i'm endlessly fascinated by and i think that's like the the defining terms i think that will be something that i will write and i think it has the potential to to change more people live than than all the other books put together but we'll see dude i'm so happy it came on alright that's it that's the part i feel like i could rule to word i know i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on a road travel never looking back hey let's take a quick i wanna tell you about a podcast that you could check out it is called the science of scaling by mark robe he was the founding zero of hubspot and he's a guest lecturer at harvard business school the guy smart and he sits down every week with different sales leaders from cool companies like cla and van and open and he's asking about their strategies their tactics and how they're growing their companies as you know head of sales or chief revenue officer if you're looking at to scale company if you're a cro or a head of sales just look at to level up in your career i think a podcast like this could be great for you listen to the science of scaling wherever you get your podcast