Giving founders brutally honest feedback

and so it's like damn you have written off the most obvious growth channel with this internal narrative of we tried that it didn't work it didn't work is a sentence i'm very skeptical of now i feel like got could rude to work to know why i could be what i want to from at all in it like a days off on a road less travel never here's what i got for today in this podcast i have a story about two kinda like blue collar founders who just got their business off the ground and i met up with them and they asked me these questions and it was like it it was a set of mistakes that i think everybody makes and so i think it's worth talking about so i wanna talk about what the three things these guys said and i wanna tell you about this business that's really fascinating because that's a small business then there's a huge business that's fascinating me right now it's so new and interesting that like i just kinda wanna talk about it with you and the last is i have like a a marketing principle of a little framework that i saw a great example that i saw and i wanna share that as well so i got three things for you alright i have a couple things for you as well maybe we'll go back and forth you wanna start with your favorite one yeah alright so i went to utah last week to do a podcast with this guy ryan smith he owns the utah jazz and he's like he started q tricks and so anyways that's gonna come out it's good good it's a good episode he's a crazy dude while i was there and one of the reasons that happened was ryan plays pick a basketball at six in the morning and there's a guy who's in his regular run he's been doing that for like sixteen years with the same group of guys in utah very like honestly aspirational thing i i was like oh man i kinda want that that sounds kinda great to have one of the guys in the run had dm me like two years ago and he was like hey i play paperwork could pick a basketball this guy ryan smith i told him the podcast is great and he should come on and was like if you guys come to morning basketball i'll do the podcast and we're like done we'll be there we with the basketball wall we do the podcast i'll just tell you he tours us around the stadium and all this crazy stuff we're just hanging out we're just getting a a like a meal before we head to the airport and so i invite those guys who the guy put in the good word i was like hey you know we should come hanging out you know you've kinda made this whole thing happen in a way like he probably wouldn't have done it had you not you know told him hey this this is something we're doing coming hang out and so he comes and he he starts tell me about his business he's got this business called mobile emissions so the idea is like you know how you have to get like your smog check you have to get like an emissions check for your car every year they do it at your house they'll come to you that's the idea okay great so normally you go to some like dump of a mechanic place and you wait in line or whatever your book appointment you go these guys will come to you for like fifty or sixty bucks okay cool and so of like how's the business going he tells me how it's going it's going great you know blah blah and then he could he he's he basically says three things that like i just thought were such such typical traps that every founder falls into myself included that's you know if you spot it you got it that's how i even noticed oh that's that trap i've been in there before i got some scars on my ankles from stepping into that one so the first one is you know he's asking about growth and naturally sam when somebody asks you like you know what do you think we should do to grow this thing what's your first question i'm just curious if you you're the same first question i do what have you tried what's worked what's like the one thing that's actually going well and what's like the ten things that you've tried that aren't going well and stop doing them and start doing the the one thing exactly so it was they basically it's like where are the customers coming from today let's start with okay so how you get customers today and then they said all you know google search results and i was like oh so google ads and they goes know like just google search results i oh like why aren't you doing google ads for when somebody searches like smog check near me or whatever right emissions testing near me and he's like oh we tried that it didn't work yeah so we're really thinking about feel yeah we're thinking about this and this and this is like fancy new cool and you're like well tell me about the try exactly so i'm like tell me like and i was like it it's interesting it didn't work what what what part didn't work tell me more what was the data and then suddenly cats got the tongue don't know that don't know the data don't know what happened oh it turns out actually what the what it actually had happened was google gives you like a couple hundred bucks of free google ad credits yeah yeah they spent it they didn't have tracking set up and then like anecdotally they were like oh i think we like lower quality leads like some people were like the price is too expensive so you it didn't really work what was the ro as on it i don't really know we you know we didn't have it set up properly it's so it's like damn you have written off what's probably the most obvious growth channel with this internal narrative of we tried that it didn't work and then it didn't work is like i'm a sentence i'm very skeptical of now i think because i think so few people truly try things to the point where they got a definitive answer and the answer was clear and they actually had iterate reiterated on it and tried it enough times to really know that that was like let's i trap number one looking for the new fancy whatever thing when the obvious thing hasn't been done properly yet i make that mistake all the time i i i've made it previously like with the hustle we grew via facebook ads and i got really lucky the very first so so the hustle was my daily newsletter in year one it was a zero to a hundred thousand year two was a hundred thousand a five hundred thousand year three was like five hundred two million and at at the end of the year one we had a little bit of a plateau and i said let's try facebook ads we know how much we make per subscriber let's just spend a little bit of money and the first ad that i made on facebook we ended up spending collectively something like eight or ten million dollars over the lifetime of the company and that trained my brain that i i i still struggle to break it which is if it doesn't work in the first couple of tries it just it won't work and the reality is and i've since i have i have examples of where this is true you really need to do like potentially fifty do a hundred reps if you're talking about an ad it could literally be your hud ad that like changes everything because this one ad that we ran it converted i think we acquired a customer for a dollar fifty everything else was three dollars it was really two times better which is the big deal it changes the the the business so i understand exactly what you're saying and by the way there's a fix for this trap of thinking which is you you also can't just stubborn do things forever either so that's not the answer write everything down so when you write down what actually happened you'll realize how flimsy of a grasp you have or how flimsy the attempt was because and the way i do it is almost like the soc method like i by by the way i literally do this is not a it's not like a metaphor i open up google doc and then it's basically me and then there's like smarter wide wiser older me right as smarter wiser they're older me basically ask a question i put that in bold and then my answer i un unfold and i just type right underneath and i just advise myself because i have the full context i'm sitting right here i have infinite time to do this for myself so let me go ahead and ask myself a question so i'll be like what's already working cool can you do more of that what would it mean if you did more of that is there a way to double doing just the same like you know without finding a new thing could you do you think you could double with just that or okay what's the next most likely thing to work and then you answer maybe it's google ads cool did you try them do like yeah we did was it a real try what happened and then you sort of have to write it down and you go look up the data and you have to do and you basically writing is sort of like an it's like an exposing function writing forces clear thinking it forces clear thinking and it just highlights sloppy thinking because you can't fill in the gaps you can't just say like it didn't really work if you just sit there you're like well if i read this i'd be like what does that mean is you know like just provide the actual answer instead of this like hand waving way of saying it and so anyways that's the the fourth is that's trap number one trap number two i like okay so what's next for you guys which by the way was a trick question because already we'd already figured out like what's next for them is to do google as properly alright so a lot of people will talk about how you need a million dollars and three years of experience to start a business nonsense if you listen to at least one episode on this podcast you know that it's completely not true my last company the hustle we grew it to something like seventeen dollars or eighteen million dollars in revenue i started it with like three hundred dollars my current company hampton does over ten million in revenue started it with actually no money maybe twenty nine dollars or something like that nothing and so you don't actually need investors to start a company you don't need a fancy business plan but what you do need is systems that actually work and so my old company the hustle they put together five proven business models that you could start right now today with under a thousand dollars these are models that if you do it correctly it can make money this week you can get it right now you can scan the qr code or click the link in the description now back to the show second trap was not dog footing your own product so one of the great like simple tests with everybody when you for me a founder you could spend like forty five minutes talking about the business but the better way to do is take out your phone or your laptop right then and just mystery shop the product and so i just i was like yeah like i was yeah you do google ads i was just checking does anyone run google ads for that same search nobody was running it and then i was like judge you said all your traffic comes from organic you're not even on the first like you're not even in the top section of google like you're like you know in the middle and i was like but this top section it's not seo it's like you know like the google like business results like where it's like a gives you like a map and a phone number to call of like yeah business that things you're trying to see them there i see him there and i was like but they were like you know even there they were like lower and they didn't have as many like reviews i was like also like it seems like your value prop is that like say people a bunch of time you don't really write that there and i was like then i go to your website and then i see this and i was like you gotta walk through your product from the eyes of a user and face the pain and we used to use user testing dot com for this there's a bunch of different ways to user test advisory user testing document you basically pay some i don't know know what it is now but like let's say it was like ten to twenty bucks a test and basically it just sends a user to the user goes to your site and it screen records what they're doing and they're talking they have to talk out loud while using it then your mom do that for a long time and they gave her stock in the company when i went public yeah that's my hundred grand off this company because she she started as a tester and then became a like a monitor of the testers like a quality control and like she got like a stock grant and the company ended up going public that's i like kind of amazing i was like you know i got my parents i got my mom on that i got my dad to airbnb house and like that's become their like last fifteen years of retirement is just doing that's awesome you know that's so i love that story so anyways face the pain i think most entrepreneurs don't actually face the pain they think the problem is elsewhere like the problem is most likely right there on your site in your core flow that users are going through where you're just not clear enough or you're not compelling enough or you're not visible enough and it's like one of those three problems if you just say how do be become more visible how do i make my proposition more compelling like more juicy and then how to i make it more clear and so i just thought like that was like thing thing to and think three was they were like should we expand we're only in two counties right now should we expand to like a third or if we can get into this one or should we like focus on like fixing the funnel like the core first right and i think this is like the constant debate that people have and my you know obviously my vice was like fix like make the system work and then replicate it is like always gonna work better than spread yourself out make your system more complex and not really while it's not really working very efficiently i think it's like typically it but i would say there are so many of these fork in the road decisions of like do we go left or right in entrepreneurship and i think there's a simple heuristic which is which one seems easier to you like i meaning mean like which one is a a lower perceived pain or difficulty because if you think there's two equal options but one one feels like it's less pain it's actually a worse option it's just being boosted by the fact that you're trying to avoid pain a little bit and and so therefore it's like it's become a fifty fifty but it's not truly a fifty fifty one of my favorite quotes that i i heard when or when charlie mu died i went and researched a bunch of his stuff and he had a quote that i i actually think about almost all the time which is a smart man does first what a dumb man does last and i've made that decision incorrectly so many times which is i'll do it this easy time this one time and then eventually i'll do this or like i can't start this way because you need scale you need this you need that so like an example would be like had i known what i know now about hampton i only would have done new york in real life and then very slowly scaled from citi to citi to citi but that's not fun that's not fun because i can't scale quickly that that's very slow and there's just been so many examples of where i've taken i i mean everyone does it where i've taken the easy route first when i should have taken the hard route first one of my favorite books when i in high school i ran cross country track and field and i and i ran in college and i was and i was pretty decent and there was a book that changed my life it was called train hard win easy that's the same phrase where i think about that all the time train hard win easy yes yeah exactly i think you know most people will realize that your judgment ultimate your your personal judgment the judge in your head with the gave who's deciding go left or go right go up or go down start or continue to start or stop all those micro decisions are obviously become your destiny and the question is how do you make that decision making function better and i don't think most people will invest in making their decision making function better they'll invest in a lot of other things they don't invest a lot in that and i think there's a c a few like kinda of shortlist list of tools that you should be doing regularly exercises you be doing regularly to work out that decision making muscle and you know one of them is basically the the thing we type about earlier writing another one is understanding your biases so like i bias towards things that sound easy or sound fun or sound cool to others and so therefore those are getting like overweight in my in my decision making versus these other things and so there's just a few few ways you can make better decisions another one by the way if you can can't tell a little bit under the weather have been sick for about a week down and dude making decisions when you're sick just my entire thought process when i'm sick is probably i don't know five times worse than my thought process when i'm healthy and i'm feeling active and energized and like anything is possible and i'm the same guy i didn't read any new books i didn't like nothing changed except for my actual energy levels by fatigue levels and i'm a totally different so i literally abs stained from making like any decisions to like when you can't you can't text your ex when you're drunk exactly that's like i can't make any decisions while i'm sick i'd drink all the fatigue makes coward of us all is like that you know what they're saying like you know in and fighting i i think there's that i i think and and that's another one where i the realization was like man okay today i'm on the extreme end of the spectrum was very obvious right like if i'm this sick i already my mind my my mood my mindset is in such a shitty state that like this is not a good time to be making good decisions decision this is not a time where i'm gonna make good decisions it's not a time when i'm gonna to be like super creative or productive or any of those things okay that's extreme but on a day to day basis like i don't really do as good of a job as i should of first getting into a gate great state of mind before then going and trying to perform whatever the performance is whether it's being a good dad or being a good ceo or being good anything and i was like and i'm in probably the top point one percent of people who think about this most of people don't even have the word state in their vocabulary and i'd like have practiced this for years with the tony robbins stuff like that a of thing me i still am i'm like i don't know pretty average at it no i don't think you're average at it i definitely don't think you're i honestly think you're great at it there's a book called the triple package and the author claims to have analyzed incredibly successful groups of people ultra successful people and she narrows it down to three reasons as to what or are three things they all have in common the first is the superiority complex so they feel that they are born to be better you know there's a lot of people listening to those this podcast podcasts and you look around at your job that you hate and you think i i was destined to do something greater than this i i i i have it inside of me i'm special i can do it that's trait one the second trait is conversely or very interestingly and in inferior complex in the sense of i am not good enough i'm not where i need to be i am shit i need to improve and that creates urgency and that creates like a fear which is actually quite good of like i have to work to be better in order to get to where i think i'm destined to go and the third one impulse control can you control your urges in your impulse and an example of this is like when you wake up at six am and you said you're gonna go to the gym it's like your i think the story you have to tell yourself is like my emotions don't dictate whether i go or not the alarm the alarm clock dictates whether i go or not and it's the same thing with making business i've made so many decisions impulsive it sounds like you're trying to prevent yourself from making a decision while being emotion emotional and that ability to put the gas pedal on and off and control your impulses a bit is incredibly valuable i would agree with all three of those and i i would just say like even i don't know the bigger picture takeaway from me is man this seems like a under invested area for myself but jet generally at large is one of the most important things that it doesn't seem like is talked or taught anywhere yeah just a reflection i think chris bare what what's chris spa spa yeah smiling he said something to you at what you told me which was amazing which is someone was selling him a story and he's like well but at least i i learned x y and z about my company going out of business and chris looks at them very stern and goes are you sure that's the right lesson that you should take away from this situation did you learn the right thing and so constantly what did i learn what's the right thing that i learned here is actually gonna so much okay what'd you learn what what well it's like oh well that didn't seem like you've actually had any clarity your thought around that and then in a lot of times the things they learned is like i learned you know you really can't trust people it's like whoa that's the takeaway you had or this whole thing like yeah that's the wrong take i was like how many times to be about actually have the right takeaway becoming very skeptical of this thing that we all nod and agree with like yeah well you learned you know it's like no you probably didn't learn actually actually in my experience most people who think that they learned at the end of thing didn't really learn or if they learned they learned some you know the wrong the blow wrong lesson that's probably not even gonna help them they do not actually have the right takeaway from the situation once you realize that it's sort of like you know like a a red pill moment can i tell you a couple businesses that are fascinating to me right now and i think i think you're gonna get a kick out of the first one alright let's go so i'm interested so you actually posted something you said i don't like running i don't care about running don't follow running but there's a story right here in this picture that i wanna talk about and what was it it was cameron haynes his son trainer true true it is a beast right now he basically is running marathons at a wicked fast pace like two hours and thirty minutes which for anyone who runs thought that that's he's that's a that's fast b he's like two and twenty pounds he's like huge and see he's doing it in blue so is that right that's exactly right there's a guy who's running long races marathons ultra marathons he's running fast and he's running them wearing like jeans not shorts not not jean shorts like full jeans and so the and you're like that right there is a purple cow and purple cow is a book by seth gordon and it's one of many books that basically say the same thing which is like in order to stand out you have to have it's better to be different than it is better and i've been thinking about that a lot lately i've been thinking them about that lot lately lately because we had a guest on and he said something like if you split test everything you're just gonna have porn and it was basically i think was george mack and it was like this idea that i even know he said that but that's great i think i i he either tweeted it or he said us the if if if you just start ab b testing your website and you just run an infinite number of av ab b test you end up with porn up that that's gotta be it actually that's so true yeah if you split us everything it just adds up important but in at and at one at at some point you need to take a stand and you wanna be different and you have to stand out and it doesn't make sense why you're doing that but it's just cool and the market tends to adjust and like recognize that that is badass you know there's a billion examples that we could go on what that means but let me give you true that interests me right now the first so you're familiar with the onion right the the comedy website oh yeah yeah of course okay so the onion was founded in nineteen eighty eight and it's kinda funny it's gone through so many different owners i think it was started at university of wisconsin as just like a newsletter was originally founded as a funny newsletter that made fun of like campus life and over the years it's become like a popular magazine and then now a digital magazine where they make fun of shit and it's hilarious and very so like it's kind of interesting that it's been owned by like a variety of people i think in like two thousand and three some rich fund hedge fund guy bought it and then they were sold and bought again in two thousand and thirteen i think if you remember like geo media it was called they own like ga like a bull crap media company bought it and it wasn't working out and then eventually in two thousand twenty four jeff lawson the founder of twilio bought it it's kinda been like one of these things where like wealthy people feel like they need to be like the patron and like steward if like you know like and be the steward of like making fun of stuff that deserves to be made fun of and and then that's pretty cool but last year they did something very interesting very p cali they brought back the the print magazine and they went really hard on the print magazine and within a year they already have fifty three thousand paying subscribers i think it costs ten dollars a month and they're expecting from that something like six million dollars in revenue this year last year they did less than two million dollars in revenue so a print magazine three x of their revenue and i think that is so cool i think i've talked about magazines on this podcast a couple times but i think magazines are incredibly interesting have do you subscribe to any you know i've been playing with this so there's a a couple people that are doing this so i currently have a arena subscription colossus so awesome patrick o's awesome who has a podcast basically sort of like expanding his media empire whatever whatever you wanna call it with long form journalism like old school print magazine you know really good it's your story on this person and it's like beautiful photography really long form stuff and it's good like i i i like the quality of the product on that side but i i don't subscribe to the physical thing i i think they have one yes they do it's new i think it's only on edition number three but it's but it's new so you just subscribe to too is that right you anymore bobby that's a lot two two is way over the oh the the vegas over line of what they thought i had here for magazine subscription i subscribed it to actually pope magazine which is a japanese magazine actually and it's called it's like i think the the tagline does it it's kind of a gay translation it's a city boy life but it's like it's sort of like g q for japan where they talk about like clothing and coffee and like urban culture gotcha which i love and interestingly i don't know if all japanese magazines are like this but it it it reads backwards so it doesn't like you don't fold it like this it's like upside down so like go to the left and that's and that's kind of interesting and then the second one is t magazine which is like a skateboard thing that i had when i was a kid that i love but i just think that magazines are so interesting and so can i tell you what i would do i thought about doing this i read the biography of jfk junior that was john kennedy of son and that he actually had a magazine in the eighties and i went and bought the first edition this is what sydney crawford it was a very it's a very famous magazine cupboards with sydney crawford dress george washington and it was cool and everything but what i would do i would call a newsletter not in a magazine and i would literally do it on white paper that is staple together with like ten or twenty sheets and put into an envelope and i think that i can do something i've thought about doing this i think someone could create some type of wealth or like for high net worth people or for tech companies and sell it for around a thousand dollars a year and only do four to eight additions per year and if i did it on wealthy people it would all be getting like tips and tactics and strategies and stories on what high net worth people are are doing or if i did it on tech companies i would sell it to the tech company and i would list as many names of the tech companies and explaining what they're doing in a particular industry as like a roundup sort of like a high school newspaper yeah that's interesting so you you're just saying physical sort of takes you into new category physical so yeah so i guess i didn't like round that out but like the purple cow here is no no digital only physical i think nostalgia is like a thing i think you and i have talked about our own habits about how we're getting sick of digital i think everyone is experiencing that and i think that someone could actually build a great business i think what a lot of people do though is they tend to go flashy shiny premium and i would argue you should go the opposite you should go like homemade mom and pop almost like a punk rock what it used to be exactly what you're pulling out right there if you put it in a folder like that so this i i i think i've showed you this before but like dia diego basically delivers me these i don't know think you could see there's like tabs on the side right so he basically prints out this thing and it's a collection of like the best things to read so it might be like oh yeah howard marks put out a new memo this week it's like we should read that we should really digest so we just slow down and read that did don't make it just chrome tab number you know ninety three oh that's open alongside twitter and a bunch of other dopamine you know fast food dispensing you know like chrome is basically like you know that coca cola a freestyle machine that's what is is like my internet browser that's as when my phone unlimited options it's unlimited options of syrup and water you know like syrup water and bubbles and that's not really what i wanna be having and this is like when somebody gets a coconut and they just chop off the top they give put a straw on it and then like here you go and you're drinking out of a coconut and so he delivers these to me basically like once a month so like you know for example in the last one it was brent b sure had wrote an annual letter about his private equity fund and it was basically like the performance of the fund so he knew i'd find that interesting like oh what if they invested in how how is that fund actually doing is you know are they doing really well or is it okay what's what's going on and then if he also has like his like you know he gets his like warren buffett on and that where he like very philosophical about life or the markets or whatever you know in there so like he knows i enjoy reading that i think you can charge a lot for that he'll put in like a a science thing so it'll be like oh yeah these guys are working on there's a lot of people out there trying to study the the genes for for short sleep so there's some people like trump and i think clinton before this like people who genetically only need five to six hours of sleep and what an advantage basically to to you know have three extra hours a day but still be at full energy and that there's people actually trying to figure out like the way we did oz and we were able to limit your need for food might make you not need more food could we make you not need as much sleep if we study this like oh that's fascinating so i'm reading you know there's like a science thing in there a briefing it's a brief and and like if i just product ties that thing that he's already giving me it's basically what you're talking about right it's all the curation right it's like you have i it would have to be somebody who is like i trust or knows my taste or know like is is genuinely because if the first thing i open if it's like meh i'm out i'm mad on this altogether you know but you can tell a story as to why something should be important so for example like the the the sleep thing that's not like inherently important but you think it's important because of x y and z and you tell that story about why it's important and what i would do is in the first page i would put directions on how to read which is if you have children it's after your kids go to bed at eight pm what don't turn the tv on and sit there and read this in your living room if you don't have kids it's like this is don't go out and on a thursday read this for one hour and your life will be better like you give like these like really intimate instructions to make someone feel good and i think that this could be a hit i sent you a link to my friend i think i've talked about this before but ne box so my friend neville he did this thing years ago where he sent people three boxes and he called them three important copyright copywriting lessons that you need to know and it was literally just a ups box with three envelopes in there the head paper like a printed paper and it was awesome so should we should we just do this as m like basically being you curate like you know two to three things each that we think is whatever with our little editorial note on top of why you know to sticky you out of like why i think this is worth paying attention to it could be awesome so you know if if the thousand fans you're willing to pay a thousand dollars a year to have like proper info diet right you know like i pay a lot of money to have a proper diet of what food goes in my body and i know people that go to an extreme they'll go straight farm to table they have their favorite ranches that they source meat from and they'll get vegetables from certain areas at certain seasons and like people have realized like it it matters what you put in changes whatever you know what's gonna happen inside your body but our minds were just like no go ahead pour like social media sludge right on right on top yeah go ahead just top top me off it's okay if it overflows i'll just and there's all these good analog for how to sell it like there's a lot of like ammo here to like sell this oh i don't this would actually be kinda fun to do you know i think this would be a little fun you know i this is only like i get these binder every month like this one of the best things in my life is getting that and so i guess like why would i not just share a version of that with other people is doesn't hurt me to share that with other people in fact it would help me i think because i think these are cool ideas of are cool cool things worth sharing so let me tell you the second one you're the son of immigrants so i don't know if this is gonna hit if this experience is gonna hit the same but in the midwest in missouri where i was raised one of the greatest things like though that i got to experience as a kid was getting milk delivered to my home at once a week and a glass bottle did you ever experience this as a kid never never okay so there's this company called ob weiss it was called ob wise dairy so ob wise was started as a dairy farm in nineteen fifteen i think in missouri or indiana but it's a very midwestern and they eventually started they sold their own milk to like their little small town and it expanded and expanded and expanded and it's mostly regional in missouri and illinois so i think they have haven't them in chicago and saint louis but as a kid this is where we would get our milk we would also get our lemonade from there and our ice cream and that was like their their thing and it felt amazing well this company kept growing and growing and growing started nineteen fifteen it was now on its fourth generation of family ownership and peak revenue i think in two thousand twenty or twenty one was a hundred and twenty million in revenue so it was good top line revenue but it's a hard business it's it's low margin and because of a bunch of silly decisions that the management had made in two thousand twenty four it went bankrupt and a guy who we talked about in the podcast his name was hoffman and in fact one of the early is pre pandemic back in when we're were in the office he ended up buying the company and i think he bought the company for twenty one million dollars plus i think he said he was gonna invest another fifteen million dollars into it who's hoffman who's this guy dave david hoffman maybe is it david yeah i think it's david he started a recruitment agency that after twenty years was making so much money that he started buying businesses he bought like a boat cruise business which is basically like one are those like things in san francisco that are like swan like what are they called where they like boat cruise it's not like a real cruise it's like a like a tour in the bay type of like right like and then he bought like blue collar businesses like that i believe and he eventually weiss which david hoffman he's based in saint louis so for all saint louis folks this is like an interesting brand but i saw that they went bankrupt and i saw that he bought it and i thought it was very fascinating and the reason i think it's fascinating is i think over white milk delivery i think that could be a thing i think that you could do you could absolutely make this a wonderful business that people are age so in our thirties and and forties people who have children grew up with something like this and it's not part of the experience that you and i have at all anymore you know we probably just go to costco or get something like insta discarded or something like that but i actually think that oat milk almond milk i think those non dairy milk i actually think those are like turning downward right now and dairy is up which it like took a hit over the last decade and glass and nostalgia and i would have an entire campaign around something like making it now like it used to be made way back when when it was made better like i would lean super hard into that and i then i would up upsell with better eggs better for you all types of products eggs whatever hopefully higher margin things but i think i think the milk delivery business and when i was thinking of like nostalgic things i think that could be really fascinating where's does that land with you less good partially because i'm like because when i'm looking at their thing they have like to have the dairy delivery but then they're like breakfast and snacks and dinner and desserts and juice outside that's not what you do that's expanded into everything but i can see why you would need to right like what it how much money could you really make just delivering only milk right our only like core dairy dip milk and eggs like could just doesn't seem doesn't seem like it's big enough it doesn't seem like there's enough you know average order value basically to make the whole like logistics worth it i do think that just building a premier dairy brand so not like the home delivery part but being like y okay all of you guys went anti dairy got it cool but if you like rich good dairy we got you and so like you know when i go to the grocery store there's these brands like i don't even know if they do anything differently right like alexander is they're like oh we have like six percent milk i'm like i don't know what six percent is but like give me that what is that the rate times is better than two percent and then they put it in a different shaped bottle and then there's like what's the other ones like strauss farms or whatever like there's these hey just you know like like every category packaging but like i think just tripling down on like rich dairy and like actual high quality dairy i just feel like the grocery store is like there's still shelves that need that sort of that that need that sort of stuff and but the the trick is if you're actually are operating a farm it's very different than the kinda like d c d rep of stuff you know what i mean and so if you actually have a story about your you know your farm and where you're at and why it's better and like all that stuff whether it's for for beef whether it's for chicken i think so somebody came on the podcast it pisses this for chicken like you should just make the the world needs like a better chicken brand and like what is the what's the like snake river farms for chicken type of thing i think there's there's that for dairy and for chicken and for beef for all these staples you know did you see what cracker barrel did so they changed their logo right is that the more than that more than that they made the inside look like a chipotle so night or they've been doing that for a long time and people just start paying attention you know i haven't been to a cracker barrel in a very long time but honestly like i didn't even is a cracker barrel or a restaurant i thought it might be like home goods like is no need to make hybrid cracker barrel it's like my when we take it's our road trip dustin it's like when we take road trips it's where we stop but it's basically a so it's a huge chain it's publicly traded billions of dollars and it's a it's a restaurant that has like chicken and dumplings there's like their famous thing but it's definitely like disgusting kicking at dumplings like asian dumplings or what you chicken dumplings brother no it's like like like bi quit you know bit remember bi quick like it's like you're looking basically biscuits and gravy sort of it's sort of like biscuits gravy and they but then they have like a huge store where you can buy like crap you don't wanna need and just junk so you could buy like accessories parts store part restaurant yeah it's like half more like gift shop it's like it's like borderline gift shop on the edge of store but but like and restaurant yeah that's right it's like the idea is like they always have a weight because they're crowded and you just go in there and you buy like cha keys basically like the optics of it i'm not saying what the reality is the optics are that this young like forty something thirty year old woman who's now the ceo she appears as though she's like a yu new yorker which is the exact opposite of who the client tell is of cracker barrel it looks like she just kinda came in and like behaved in such a way where she's out of touch with the average cracker barrel the average crap app absolutely she's out of touch with the average cracker who goes car yeah yeah lot of girls no cracker yeah she does not own like one pair of overalls so like it it it it peep i'm not again i don't know the reality i'm just saying that's what it looks like and they're the the stock just like crash after she made this announcement and but there is something about that where it's like dude don't don't fix this stuff it's supposed to look disgusting that's right feature that's not a bug it's supposed to look like a filthy restaurant right right where's the matter here alright what do you got alright so before this podcast i spent probably the last hour reading a profile on alpha school and what's name joe lam dude we were on that early but we didn't have of information on them and and they explained why joe hadn't done an interview in twenty five years so there's more info out now about alpha so so well i basically this isn't like this is we're now tread in the waters of the unknown a little bit because it's a little bit mysterious plus there's just it's new plus you haven't been there in person plus who well say who joe is alright so joe is basically like a software entrepreneur who's super super successful like ten billion dollar network worth type of type situation he dropped out of college a senior year at stanford i believe he starts trilogy software trilogy software was basically like an enterprise sales system of some kind still don't entirely know what they did after all by that yeah it's like before my time it's like alright cool like like the analogy that i think i heard is like if you're an airplane company and you need to buy lots of parts to build your airplane it would help you decide which components to purchase that that's that's the best i i could tell but it became huge and he it was basically like him in microsoft like recruiting the best talent him microsoft and dell they were he was a type of he was when he was like twenty eight he was on the forbes list of richest americans exactly so he was the youngest guy on the forbes list ford four hundred he's was worth like five hundred million dollars at that stage he then also creates private equity firm called i think es capital or stuff like that and basically starts buying small small software companies that are cash flow type companies and then similar to constellation software basically bought like hundreds of these companies and then you know that's now a big deal which i think i think i think he's he has a lot of mystery because allegedly one of the tactics is that he would buy dying software companies fire everyone outsourced to india and just acknowledge that it was dying and not invest in it and hire the cheapest people which right is not inherently wrong but it's not maybe the thing that you wanna brag about all the time we got hospice yeah so okay so so we so whatever he's he's obviously mega mega successful again worth sort of like tens of billion hours one of richest guys in the world he recently his thing that he got obsessed with is called alpha school so the story here is that from what i can understand there's a woman who used to work for trilogy software she and her husband i think our name is mackenzie pricing they create a school first for their own kids and they kind of are like in are they're kind of motivated because of the following problem which i agree with the the problem statement entirely so you know if you look at the world's greatest you know the greatest people that that that have accomplished things in the world so whether it's like you know mo art or beethoven they're composing symphony at h five right or it's alexander the grid he like conquered most of the world by the time he was twenty two started at sixteen there's many many many examples of people who had a very young age were capable of a do of doing a lot and so you know there was a central question of like why don't we have more alexander's not like conqueror per s but people who had a young age are able to do a lot if you look at einstein and you look at alexander or you look at like marcus aurelius one of the things about a lot of these sort of great achieve is that the way they learned was not in a traditional school but was through direct one on one tutoring from a sort of wise mentor so like socrates plato doh you know that that's sort of that that lineage of one on one tutoring like a like a like a apprenticeship a little bit like a but they're not working for the person they're just daily study daily tutoring one on one with a master and there's all these studies that have happened over the years of what is the best way to teach you know like i think we would all agree we would love education to be more effective we'd all love to improve education like super high leverage if you can educate people better you know the world prosper so how do you do it and for a long time there's been this thing called the two sigma problem i've you seen this blooms two sigma problem oh according wikipedia it's the two sigma problem this one on one mentorship about ninety percent of tutor tutor students attained a level of achievement reach by only the highest twenty percent so basically you are almost guaranteed to be in the top twenty percent if you use this one on one tutoring methodology correct and so for a long time it's been the case alright now what's changed ai has changed so now with ai the idea is any kid with a tablet an ipad or whatever can have a tutor that is fully designing custom lessons plans on the fly for each student perfectly tailored to their current current levels of equity so there's other there's other parts of learning science you know for example you wanna not pass people until they have mastery of a concept because otherwise they don't have a they a shaky foundation so the problem with traditional school is you pass if you get a c a c is about you know seventy percent or better well what they've shown is that you if you get a person to seventy percent or seventy two percent basically their rate of learning as they progress will always like decrease because seventy percent was actually a bit of a shaky foundation they didn't actually understand it so when they tried to learn the next thing and the next thing it was too wobbly of a foundation and it collapses whereas if you get them to ninety percent mastery of subject they'll do really well so one thing is like classrooms today it's taught to get everybody to you know at least seventy to move forward but the problem is you actually want people at ninety to move forward in terms of percentage the second part is like you know you want people to be tested at a level that is you know not so easy that it's boring it's to not challenging enough but not so challenging that it's too hard i don't even understand i'm drowning right and so finding that like you know that peak middle zone where i'm being tested enough but not pushed so far that i'm gonna you know go over the cliff that would be great but you can't do that in a classroom because every kid's at a different spot so you know you just sort of you you sort of keep everybody comfortable now that means that the smartest kids are not challenged and it means that the kids are furthest back are just utterly confused so you're kind of going for this like average you you teach the sort of the average of lowe's common denominator i'm just like overs simplifying everything but this is the this is the complaint of normal school okay so what is alpha school doing basically it's a school in austin where k through eight you go and you do two hours on an ipad and the idea is that your two hours on an ipad with your ai tutor will teach you not only everything you needed to know as at for whatever grade level you're in but you'll learn double that so you basically are doing you learn double but in only two hours okay so that's the that's the promise and then what do the rest of the day they basically just have like random life skill workshops so go rock climbing hey build a piece of ikea furniture so they say life skill means public speaking entrepreneurship outdoor education these experiences build grit creativity and adaptability yeah and so like for example they they did this thing where and they they call the teacher's guides so the guides were like they had a a group of second graders and they go alright let's come up with five impossible things impossible for a second grader to do so the first one was to run a five k in under thirty five minutes i think it was so it's like run a five k another three five minutes so it's like can your second grader even run a five k like most second graders could not even run a five k i mean if a that's pretty long run for a second grader second grader you know is seven year old and so they asked all the students do you think you could do it nobody raised their hand that's asked all the parents do you think they can your kid could do it and nobody raised their hand and so that became one of the missions one of the workshops one of the impossible missions we're gonna train like a seven a seven year old had to run out five k that was it so what they did was the first day they just walked the five k they said alright you've you've completed it you've you at least know that you can go the distance the distance is is a manageable distance and so they did that for like a couple days then they then they just said aren't cool we're gonna we're gonna try to run the first quarter mile or for the first quarter of it and then we're gonna walk the rest great they did that for a couple of then they then they did half half of it running walked the rest set three quarters of it running then walk the rest until they could run the whole thing by the end of the like couple months not only did one second grader to do it every single second grader did it and some of them did in under thirty minutes and they were basically say they were like here's know said they had these like five impossible you know like challenges they they made them wanna do it and the reason they're able to do this is because they're doing all their learning in just a two hour window so they could spend the rest of their time doing things that are you know interesting life life type stuff for themselves well and they're teaching them how to like break down a problem thirty five minutes so we'll start small and build up confidence yeah i mean i see i i that's amazing i totally see the value seems kind of amazing right now here's some more just things that are just fascinating about this so joe lam pulled out a billion dollars i saw in companies to invest in alpha school he then said this is the best product i've ever built by far better than anything i did at trilogy better than anything i've ever done since this is so much and and it's this app that he's building called time back and so it it's basically like a custom ai tool that basically you are on your your ipad you're learning or your your little your tablet laptop you're learning and it is doing two things one there's a little waste meter in the corner so just because the camera's watching you and recording the screen at all times so it sees if the kid just leaves just like dude up his point oh it's his what he use at his companies he's what he use that trilogy right like that is a or when he would like buy these companies he was known having like pretty extreme like he like monitoring productivity monitoring tube stuff like controversial extreme right that's awesome this is so cool i didn't realize i saw the article and i started reading about as i wanted to know about the business stuff and the article was like joe's is not gonna talk you about business stuff he he doesn't wanna talk about trilogy ew aws he doesn't wanna talk about any of that but he will talk about alpha school and i was like oh shit that's like what i wanna know and so when it started getting the school stuff i i was like i don't know if i wanna read that but this sounds so much cooler than i thought i didn't realize how big this was going to be and i'm on their website and my kid isn't school age yet but i'm thinking i would absolutely want them to go to this would you send them yours dude i wish this was around us because so i'll just give you like my little side side stories here alright just like personal personal life experiences so my kids were home this summer and is our first summer break like my daughter is she just did what they call tk k like pre k so she just finished that she's gonna be a kindergarten this year and my son was about to be pre pre case student and then we have a baby use it's small but i had this mission i was like okay three things i'm gonna do this summer we're gonna take two epic trips with their cousins because i was like that was always like core memory for me yeah i'm gonna teach them to swim because they love just they love to do it it's summer anyways plus it's like a good life skill to have and you know i i haven't like taken the time to like actually teach them the swim but i can do that and then i'm a teach teacher to read because this i'd noticed i was like all of the like schools we send them to like school is a very generous word for what's actually happening right like it's a it's by and large babysitting take care and i think this is true you know for generally for most schools like you know even through high school college like there's a lot that's a big aspect of what school is but when they're a little it's very much that like you know i would ask them kinda like what they've learned it's like well they mostly just like played and then they learn like one thing but like you know they can't do math or they can't read and i'm like are they teaching me you they're like no no they're just doing letters i'm like but you know the letters you know all the letters you could write already and they're like yeah but you know to just teaching at that pace if i want you to learn anything i'm gonna have to do it outside of this so i discover this app called men ta men ta yep go to men dot com now this is a learning app that was so expensive i was just actually offended by the price when i saw it i don't know if you've ever like downloaded app bet for kids stuff but it's usually like i don't know five dollars to unlock the thing maybe it's like a seven dollars a month you know if it's like really good like you know oh my gosh i just saw this is a five hundred dollar a month per kid size something a thousand dollars a month for this app and with this but this app has a very simple promise which is we could teach any three to five year old to read if they just spend i don't know fifteen minutes a day doing this thing for a couple months to talk about value pricing your old boss em sheer he's a investor emmett is you gotta ask for the discount code so i was like wow this is incredibly expensive but i'm incredibly intrigued so i i get my kids on it they've been doing it all summer and sure enough it actually is pretty effective and like i would say the app itself is incredibly jan it's like the polish is jan the animations are jan like everything everything's is jan it's not like the best app but the core idea which is like it's a simple value prop i can teach your kids how to read if they do this thing for like ten to fifteen minutes a day and like they just broke down reading because if you think about what is reading i think there's like forty five different like sounds you need to be able to make so it's like forty five sound combinations which is like you know you have to learn that like you know a is a and b as b and then they have to learn that like ck k is together you have to learn like those sound first so first they teach them all the building blocks and then they show them how they they work when they're put together in words and like sure enough both my kids are starting to read i'm just like you can't you don't get cartoons or anything else tell you do you're reading today right really very simple train and they like doing it it's kind of a game and they they enjoy doing it and by the way the investors if you go to their investor page it's like like literally everyone who's been on this product like every investor has been on our podcast yeah i know it's five hundred dollars because he's comparing i don't they wanted it to be is the real answer it doesn't need to be five hundred dollars but they're comparing it to like tutoring human tutoring so they're like oh five times cheaper than a human tutor i was like okay cool but it's also five hundred times more than you know a normal learning app on the ipad which is my frame of reference coming into this but i i've now seen the value of this type of like personalized learning because let's say they're they're playing this game if they don't understand that you know s h is sound if they fail like if they get they get it wrong three times they lose that little game level it knows that okay you just don't understand s h so don't you don't to replay that level you hop back three levels and i'll re teach you that building block to make sure that you understand it and i'm gonna get you to repeat you know in these four i'm gonna use five different games as space repetition to teach you these same you know same few few concepts but it makes me nervous to have my kid on an ipad not i i can even be sure maybe that's a personal personal thing but do my kids are on device all the time i've lot i've that i've let go of that rope that that rope is like you know what is it that like that horse is out of the barn already so now just a question of like how bad is it you know well what what are you doing with your time there and so what are okay bringing back to alpha school what are you saying i believe that they're gonna be able to do this i believe that they're gonna be able to if somebody actually with like the guy took a billion dollars out and he has i think the three hundred person like ai lab that he's building his own little open ai that he's building to basically like custom train these models build applications on top of them and i think this is an insane thing that's gonna happen and i think it's gonna take over is my my like my un hedge my un un hedge true belief is that something like this is gonna exist and this is the best bet i've seen so far don't think it's gonna take over i think it's gonna be a massive success i see like so many reasons why someone would protest this which like there's what we've talked about going the opposite of ai and technology there's a massive contingency of people that will go to that category one of our good friends sends there's their kids to a new thing that i've never heard of called nature school i've heard of nature school my sister runs a nature school and i don't entirely no know what it means other than you're outside and it involves nature i i guess that's it but there's but there's like an entire contingency of people that wanna go that route but i do think that alpha school will be a massive hit and i am interested in like when i was reading it just we've been talking i'm like i am open to this this sounds very intriguing does it help you get into college or are they like anti college or they didn't get to that point yet no it does they're high school they have a high they go all the way through high school and they're like our high school students like crush the sat and act compared to they're like basically they use these like pretty standardized metrics called map about like basically how much you learned so let's say it's like you do a test and it's let's say the average third graders is at like a one hundred score in math well by the end of a normal semester of school they would have gone up seven points but without school they go up fifteen points well then well but of course that compounds because they did that in you know short amount of time plus then when they enter the next level they'll grow again so they're going like by a bigger amount and at a faster rate and so you know obviously that compounds the longer you would do it dude do you know how like you don't i don't know if this is true but the story is like magic johnson became a billionaire not the basketball but through like franchising make mcdonald's you said you wanna to open up a school like you could be the biggest franchise well i don't even know if you have to franchise i think you just literally licensed the technology yeah similar yeah it's just do i wanna do it for young kids versus like college you know like i'm more hips interest in college but because young kids have their own set of problems you know it's really complicated well yeah but it i mean like that's super rewarding running my company hampton it gives me the chance to meet with hundreds of different businesses and i'm always surprised by how many of them still use spreadsheets emails and clunky tools that do not talk to each other it's like watching someone build a house with duct tape so here's my take custom software that actually fits your needs isn't just convenient it's a competitive advantage should transform the way you do business and that's why you need to know about a no code platform called bubble with bubble you can build powerful web and mobile apps by literally dragging and dropping different elements out the screen no coding required by the way i use bubble on a ton of different apps including hampton and if you want help building something complex on bubble you have to bring in zero code they're the top bubble agency out there and literally the biggest plugging creator for the platform they can build anything custom portals saas products and they do about ten times faster and cheaper than traditional development zero code is also all about ai business automation transforming manual and slow processes into efficient automated ones so stop cobb together different tools and solutions and head to zero code dot com that's zero code as in the word zero and then code q o d e again code is with a q and tell them that sam sent i feel like you and i so we're both in our mid thirties it sort of feels like one of the last eras in which high school was the same way that it was for like the trailing fifty years and that now the current highs it's radically different so i remember when i remember i think it was a sophomore in high school when an iphone came out and if you the teachers didn't even know to ban it because no one no one even had one and i think facebook came out when i was i think in high school or maybe like an eighth grade and so none of these problems were particularly like problems like online bullying wasn't a thing and it when i see what high schoolers are like now i do not envy them the the the way that children are going to be raised from like five to eighteen years old it's significantly different than how the trailing let's say probably sixty or seventy years were raised and i think that we don't give them enough credit because i think that the systems that they have to go through now is significantly more difficult and i'm very eager to see how like some rat like if you told me about the school twelve years ago we would said you're insane what are you talking about like you know what i mean and so i'm very eager to see how parents are gonna deal with not being able to empathize with what their children are going through do you what mean like we all had the same thing going a high squad parent when we have well being an immigrant maybe you was slightly different but it was like your parents could kinda guide you on what to how to act but now it's way different i think for me it well already was different know my parents had an arranged marriage right so like imagine like their to like the dating scene in high school pro you know do they do they understand any of that stuff like not really right do they understand like you know they grew up in india so it's like everything was different for how we were growing so i guess like that is just sort of the immigrant experience i don't know you just sort of do your best to hang on out these two pictures i just text you i wanna tell you about one more example of this like alternative schooling okay so you just sent me a photo of it looks like a warehouse someone's building something and then it's a bunch of kids just hanging on a field right yeah so the first picture of the warehouse so this is basically my brother law since ji who who's on the podcast recently when i went to visit him in vegas this summer i'm like okay great and he's been in just commercial real estate for a long time and he's a builder and he's been doing that was tremendously successful and he's like yeah you know i did something that's kinda crazy and i go what he goes so i just bought this building in downtown las vegas like a ten million dollar building and i'm gonna he goes he basically he had this experience with his oldest son where he was like you know my son he's really smart but he's bored at school because again like he already knows the stuff they're teaching and so he just he just dis disengaged because it's is like not that interesting and he really loves baseball he's on like the national he got picked for like the national team of his age and he's like but because he's at school for you know like eight hours a day by the time he gets off school and a time for baseball practice he's he's like kinda tired he just does it for an hour or two and then he like comes home and he wants to just chill eat play video games to go to sleep and so he's like we are gonna homeschool him this year but he's like instead of homeschooling where he's just sitting at our house you know he's rolls out of bed and like hey i'm at school now whatever and like we're busy parents what are we gonna teach hey how do we do this he basically created like a we work for kids to homeschool so check this out so what he's doing is called the grind academy or something las vegas it's basically a sports prep school where you home school you're said the kids who the kids are homeschooling schooling so they go to this they go to the the idea would be that they would go to the school they'd spend i don't know two to four hours a day on like the education all using like alpha school type of software right so there's they're all doing they're all doing their their curriculum you know on their computer or their ipad there's a teacher sitting there who's there to help in case you don't understand something there's like a tutor available that will help you unplug get un stuck and then when you're done with your work or like you know but when you start your day you go there you do like a morning condition like morning workout so you get like a a morning workout in then you do your school stuff you you grab your smoothie your protein shake you go upstairs you do your school stuff and then you have your afternoon skill specific sports specific training crazy you're getting like two day stuff got like pro coaches and like top level like strength conditioning coaches to come in and be like that's crazy doing this for kids it's like an i g that was twelve yeah so he's basically building i g but just as a private school for like you know middle schoolers like youth sport you know youth athletes and i was like this is a crazy move and he's like i would he was i i i would never do this because he'd had actually been in the gym business he had built a eighty two store chain so he's already been in the gym business for and he's like done well in that but also knows all the pains of scaling a gym he's like you know i didn't just wanna like create a gym for kids or a create a gym at all he's you know for my kids he's like i just got tired of like the stuff they're learning in school was too slow too boring and too not relevant to like what's going on in the world today like you know i would rather than come in here they would learn their math or reading their writing and then take like a workshop on starting a youtube channel or a podcast or you know learn like you know what's going on with ai like what what's going on with drone tech how do you what is that stuff how do you how do you learn about that like where the future is going like marketing classes business classes like open up a lemonade stand i don't know there's other ways you can learn outside of just this you know like the traditional sort of school model and so he's like dude i think that model is dead and he's created his own private school and the two photos i sent you that's in thirty days so i went there and i was like oh wow this is like a kind of a raw building and he's like yeah opening up in thirty days tell like what does he have any anyone who's enrolled you have have forty kids are enrolled right now how much does it cost it's i don't know how much it cost exactly i think the first cohort is like a you know whatever like more like five to seven grand a year but it'll get up to like you know when when he wants he has the full school built out rolling and he's like kind proven his model it'll be closer like a twenty thousand dollar a you're you know basically prep program this is crazy this is crazy is that is that insane my kids aren't there yet this is overwhelming like this whole idea of like guides i've heard this so many time ramon sent his kid to a school where they had a guide right and i found it very i'm at open to things very easily but there could be better way because like her way is a great it's very this is this is a very scary thing because it's it's your it's your children and it's a very overwhelming to like learn about all this and i don't know what the right way is but it doesn't to be a better way to learn visibly stressed out right now yeah i'm stressed out about or does this stress you out because i'm so care about this boy but like your a b test it you should send one kid one way and one kid to the other way it just it just tested it layers but but it yes it's an it's like a super important thing but first of all like none of these things are permanent right like our friend who sent their kid to like one of these alternatives you just took about like after a semester if he didn't like he didn't feel like it was working for right it's it's yeah it's not the end of the world yeah one we have a kid we have a buddy who went to one of these schools and i asked them and like hey are you he was in eighth grade grader gonna ask any girls out and he's like they're all nine non binary so they're not i was like oh my god man i'm so happy i don't have to deal with this this is a very stressful a very special situation i found a very stressful i was like oh well i don't have any advice i'm sorry like i like i i don't what to sell you dude the the bar so low once you realize like the like once you just go sit in the the current like status quo you're like okay what's my real risk here like my real risk is so low because this current experience you know it's not like i'm trading something that's really good for something that might be better it's something that is pretty satisfying and it's like well do you wanna try something that could be better that sort of logically makes more sense dude i went to do have you you have you ever been around catholic stuff have you like hung out with a nun if i known dude fuck i went i went to catholic something you have to not like catholic i went to well you like see you don't even see him anymore they're like rare i went to catholic school i had nuns teaching me and like they were the con and like it was sister mary yeah they're all like sister mary sister a teresa sister or catherine and they would hit me if i mis and it's that's a pretty that's a much more radical experiment it's like weird that's not radical that's just how it's been done it's it's it's not radical and it says that it's not new yeah yeah it's not that it's new i guess what i'm saying is like dude i loved it i would even boys acceptable then i think this should be acceptable you i went oh i agree i went to all boys college prep school like a high school catholic school it sounds spencer than it this it was it was like very blue collar was it or something like that no no no called saint louis university high school it was an all boy school and it was fantastic i loved it i can't say enough good things i enjoyed my experience so much and i would have i was a jerk i was a jerk in high school and i would have a teacher kinda get my face and yell at me if i did something wrong and it was exactly what i needed i loved that strict disciplinary experience and it and it had a big impact on me so i my the reason i don't have too much empathy for wanting to change is because i enjoyed my experience had i go to a public school i think it would have been a lot different i can't imagine a public school with five or six thousand kids that i feel like i would i'm so intimidated of that of the idea of that right i mean i went for i went to a high school in houston texas that was like that four thousand kids i remember like if you just walked into the bathroom there was like ear piercing parlor basically what's there they were just good piercing in the bathroom this was insane dude it sounds like prison there was like yeah there was scheduled fights of like which like they just scheduled fights it's like oh these guys are gonna fight these guys today and was like i was just like pretty weak it's like seat two hundred two zero two it's like alright it's happening this week did my experience is still harmonious halfway through high school my parents should be off to china and we all moved to beijing and i finished high school in the international school of beijing and now i'm gonna hundred fifty person ex expat only international school the the so i couldn't have like two totally different experiences you know second one good oh it was amazing best thing that happened to him it was to have that yeah why well first i needed it was china it was chinese kids or or americans no it was mostly like it was a mix because like you you you had to have a foreign passport to attend got it it couldn't be a chinese local an attend no matter how much money had you you had have enough money where you had dual you had a passport of singapore or somewhere else to come so a lot of kids were asian because it maybe was like korea japan whatever a lot of you know australians you know europeans americans whatever and it was i mean it was great for me only because like a change of environment even if the environment is not better is great just because it gives you a blanket like a clean probably blanket study you know to to just be like oh okay cool like socially i was like this before but now i could be different you know like sports wise here's what i was before here's what i'm doing now you know whatever you could you could do it all there plus i don't know like it was just a better school overall like there was just no like i don't know i don't know i don't explain it it was just like a higher quality everything the food was higher quality the teachers were higher quality the classes were higher quality yeah you're it was a rich kid because a rich kid school like what do what do you want it's gonna be it's gonna be that you know and and all the companies pay for it so the parents don't usually pay for it like when the company moves you they're like alright we're taking your kids out of like you know american public school or whatever we'll have to give you an equivalent of an english schooling experience over there so the companies pay for it that's pretty sick i would i've i've dreamed of like moving away for a year or two with my with my children i think that'd would be awesome that's pretty bad ass i would highly highly highly recommend it i think it's one of the best things anybody could do is go is not on the list china's down the list china's down the that's not on the list but you know like paris is pretty dope or something like that what it's got gallo said america is the best place to make money europe the best place to spend it yeah so that that that sounds pretty good alright that's it that's it alright that was a great pod someone in the comments said sam sean we're so we like these gas and all that stuff but we just want brainstorming we just want old school ideas old tool episodes that's what this episode was hope you enjoyed it alright that's a pod i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days off on a road travel never look back my friends if you like m then you're gonna like the following podcast it's called a billion dollar moves and of course it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the number one audio destination for business professionals billion dollar moves it's hosted by sarah chen spelling sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist and with billion dollar moves she wants to look at unicorn founders and fund and she looks for what she calls the un affected leader many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic she does it with unfiltered conversations about success failure fear courage and all that great stuff so again if you like my first million check out billion dollar moves it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network again billion dollar moves