5 Live Callers Get Startup Advice from Hormozi & Shaan

wanna try something different okay it's the h hotline take five listeners out of the crowd have them call in or gonna tell about their business tulsa a business problem cool so this is the h hot okay are you da to it i feel like i could rude the world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days so on a go less travel never look we got flow here flow i want you to give us the what's the name of your business and give us the one minute description of what you do give us a sense of where you're at revenue wise and then we're gonna get to what's your biggest business problem and we're gonna try to help you out here in a couple of minutes so like i said i'm flo i knew in london i own a company called when worth protection and from what we do is we install security ball on people's driveway and if you don't know what that basically like a metal pole that you put on your driveway base it's got your car from getting stolen i started the business as side hustle in january twenty twenty four so we're now like year and a half in it's just me and my best mate we both still do this in side i thought we've got a couple of information guys for last year we did just shy i had two hundred and fifty k this year we're probably gonna do five hundred and kind of the biggest issue we're having right now is content the problem you solve is people in the uk are getting their car stolen and there's some you put a poll in the driveway that prevents that that's correct yeah concept is just through the roof in in the uk especially around london so this poll comes up three your driveway and i mean even if someone gets into a car they just actually they're stuck way okay got it so you get two to fifty k you're one five hundred you're on pace five hundred k this year and give us the quick and dirty on how are you getting those customers today because you said it's the side hustle so we're where are you getting business yeah yeah the first three months is based me purely door door saturdays asian sundays is just knocking on boards which by the way in the uk people find that really strange yeah and now it's about kind of a fifty fifty mix between google labs just like search and mainly seo so we get those of organic leads coming in as well and then a little bit of referral in that okay alright how much should the post cost and average pick is about thousand bucks okay so what's so what's your what's cost you to install we got roughly fifty fifty percent margin so like paying the installation price and buying the units it's about fifty percent of of tickets okay got it you make five hundred bucks in gross profit per that sound right alright okay got it so what do you wanna have happen i let moly okay got it so what stopped you from doing more door to door honestly at the time constraint currently it seems like that the the conversion on door to door the amount of time that it takes it just doesn't equate to extra to put into content or writing more blog posts or trying to reach out to commercial partners that kind of stuff okay so one of the big things is like i think you have to get a little bit narrower in terms of how you wanna get leads because you you're super resource constrained right now like you don't have a you know a ton of capital that you can like put to work or anything like that and so it's like you've got you've got search you've got seo you just mentioned commercial partners which i'm guessing you're doing through outbound is that how you're getting it and you're also said content yeah correct content is based not that i'm trying to crack i i inherently know that content can be really big this business but it's just like we did a viral tiktok two days ago did a millions views and it's just not translating to any increase in incoming lease slow yeah so okay i wanna i wanna rewind for a second i think that so fundamentally because you have these you have these three ways that you can reliably get customers and then of this other way that you would like to get customers but aren't really getting customers from you is does that sound right yeah okay so why not like what are you spending on on on search right now about three k okay what do you make back on the three k lt tax dot three one three to one okay so what stops you so you're making nine grand a month roughly off google yeah okay and then seo is bringing in how much about about the same okay and what do you spend on seo honestly i'm just doing it all myself i buy back every now and again but i'm just doing all the ryan and all the technical myself okay got it and that's bringing like nine thousand a month as well pretty much yet about fifty fifty days and you stopped doing door to door right no you're not doing anymore you stopped doing it because you got tired of it because it stopped working no it's just we it was such a grind in the early days it was like that was the way for us to get the distance off the ground because we had no money in which just have the house speak to people but at the moment if like i still have a job i have a kid my partner has a job he as of a kid yeah and trust to find any time yeah i go all through it's no heard heard okay so and then the rest is referrals yeah it's referrals there's a few little platforms like nectar door check trademark bulk like we get a dr in through those but but those must be small because you basically said about ten k from each of these that's twenty k a month that's four hundred eighty k a year that's basically what you said you're on track to do what what those twenty right so that's so that would get this two fifty you said your your run rates five hundred yeah correct so a lot of this is is pound so the numbers i gave you oh alright whatever big picture more better new right so if you've got if you've got search and you've got seo you do i will i will like i am staring at the door to door thing i'm not gonna i will come back to it but what do you have to make in order to quit the job we could quit right now i i'm just a little bit of a pussy to be honest okay fair well then how many hours you dedicating to doing this versus the job it's like forty hours on my job in fifty hours on this for pretty wake moment i've work understanding i it so let me ask you a quick question if you actually just went door to door for forty hours a week i'm not saying you do this but i just like to ask the hypothetical if you want door to door basically replaced your job with spending a hundred percent on daughter i'm not gonna say you do that but just hypothetically would you be able to replace your income if you did that i think probably not i mean it's just just like running really quick numbers let's say i get let's say do make two thousand a week or three thousand a week from door at all which would be really impressive price at this point that would bring in fifteen hundred gross to six a a month that wouldn't cover it okay great so then what stops you from spending like ten grand a month on google ads yeah great question so we just scaled i'll group that some fifteen hundred up to three k okay it takes us about two or three months to get that to scale okay flo what one of the things i love about business is that every problem has already been solved and so one of the things that i would ask is can you work backwards from a business that already is doing what you're doing so are you the only guy doing this are you the only company that offers this service and if not who's that company and how do they get customers yeah yeah there's a couple of much much bigger pays in this phase and i think what they've cracked is they're just really really really good organic they just get by maybe five a x the amount of traffic that we get when you say organic i don't think you're saying that the incumbents are amazing at tiktok what do you actually mean when you say they get organic sorry i literally mean the mike okay so they rent the delete her well let me ask you this question like for so if i if i bought your business tomorrow my first ads would probably men be meta ads because like that making meta ads work yeah make making meta ads work and the the thing that you have is one you have a clear fear like people are afraid of cars they're targeting getting stolen and i'm sure you can put some stats up on the board that shows like big arrow to the right oh my god cars are leaving right and you also have a service that is that is tangible and visible like you can demonstrate it much harder to say hey like in a in a in an ad i'm really good at seo it's way better to be like look car got stolen like literally you're just like like you could just do it before and after if like look guy with a mask on gets in the car walks out and then right afterwards guy with the mask gets in and then he's like oh no this one it's literally the the ads that i would mirror are the car jack ads if you so google that it's the little like the the bar you bar steering yeah you put on the steering wheel those ads and then you just go local targeting do a you know ten mile radius or whatever that is in kilometers that i would bet you right now would get you the like that would scale like really high like you could probably get to ten twenty thousand a month we did we didn't mess the admin in the early days and i told myself that didn't work but it was just the crane which is terrible yeah i'm sure it was i mean advertising work so it's not like meta ads don't work right it's like you just needed to get the process down but if you just do a very simple narrative ad with your iphone demonstrating the product and the problem that it solves and keep it under sixty seconds i guarantee that you be able to get leads and then all you have to do is just call them get a deposit on the phone for you to show up and then and then roll the deposit towards the the thousand bucks just like hey it's a hundred bucks for an assessment it's just to make sure that you show up and if you suck at sales and say hey just put a card down and then i'll only bill if you don't show it's just to make sure because i'm gonna send a truck and a guy out there it's just we don't wanna get no showed most people be fine with that and then you just roll it right into the thousand bucks if they just decide today and that gives you a little bit of urgency in the sale when you show up even better we don't even have to show up we we can just we can just do the whole we don't we don't really do that does it can i ask your question about it wait you you just install it on first go you there's no scouting explain that so you just go out and install first shot right is that what you're saying yeah they just send us a picture we say let's go for they send us a prepaid and deposit yeah okay great so that's i mean literally it's a phone sale so if i'm looking at all this stuff the first thing i would do is say like let's see if i could triple you know triple google ads you already went to three three k be like can we get to nine and then it's like cool that buys you your job back right if it if you got it if you tripled and you kept the same with that allow you to quit yeah right and i would i would before doing meta i would keep hitting google ads until i can't do it anymore i would buy all the traffic and then once i'd maxed out google locally i would a hundred percent put all my stuff in meta ads what's the rationale on keeping going on google rather than just running with like doing now every every extra penny in into mess because you haven't done it yet got it if you're making money somewhere we'll make it as much as you can first and then once you can't make any anymore more better new so flow one one one last thing that i think is important is you basically said something that i think is emotional but not logical and i think you could counter either emotion with emotion or logic with logic but don't try to counter emotion with logic so you have you basically were like i have quit my job why because i'm being a bit of pussy about it so i think you gotta have a conversation with yourself about how you feel about that do you want this to be a forever side hustle or would you actually like this to be your main business i said if so where would you get the courage and the conviction to do this because you have some evidence do you have currently enough evidence would you like some more evidence what would that take because you know you're gonna be limited by your own bandwidth in this business and so we could give you five strategies that would work but if you only have ten hours when you're fatigued to go execute them you're gonna walk away saying i didn't really work because you didn't really try it and so i think for your long term success you gotta be able to go go all in on this and it maybe maybe now's is the time maybe it's not only you know that but it sounds like that's something to address today and try to figure out how do i want to think about that i know how i have been thinking about it but how do i wanna think about that going forward right what's the narrative what's the narrative to myself about that so don't answer that now but i think that's something worth doing that's a that's between you new therapist so yeah but but i think it's important to answer that i know a lot of entrepreneurs who have gotten success started on the side i don't know a lot of entrepreneurs who finished with it as on on the side right so unlikely that that's your end outcome with this is that this stays a side hustle and so the question is how do you get there from where you are today yeah yeah i love nothing more than than being in the game so i think that's where i'm headed is alright flo we've been charging one ninety nine a minute so you're you owe us some money down thank you for calling the h hotline we will see you dude appreciate it let us know what happens thank you thank you thank you see you at the book launch hey let's quick break for a message from our sponsor hubspot who's making this episode possible listen if you're trying to build something the big and i'm talking about a hundred million dollar or a billion dollar company one of the most important things is to focus on the market where is the opportunity you are like a surfer on a surfboard board and you were trying to find the biggest best wave possible for you to go on well hubspot has put together a cheat sheet that is studying and sort of rev reverse engineering what's working today so they're looking at the top performing industries that you could be looking at the funding routes that work the best and the growth strategies that the fastest growing companies are using so if you want a one pager that is a cheat sheet on the the big company playbook you can get it right now just either scan this qr code that you see on the screen or click the link in the description below funding alright back to the shelf alright alright what's up who am i speaking to speaking of cars fact me too carson pleasure man tell about the business so yeah my name is carson i have a recruiting business i tell my client hiring should make you money dot com time that's applied bill diamond connect i'm a customer and use this business brand work with a lot of companies like true classic pe cloud in hardware okay full cycle recruiting head got it so you what do you do support or what what what roles do you recruit for got really all roles too near to c level roles hit pm for sean did performance create a retention social media head of ops so a lot more on the marketing and rev gen side carson here here's your ad carson yeah carson found me my cmo for my e com business who's not the ceo of the e com business so that's that's good you could do your pricing your blog alright what's the what's revenue right now right now for watch year did one point six here and track to hit around two how okay got it so what's the what's the issue what's holding back do you think being a contingency focus recruiting yeah allowed us to you know get a lot of clients in the door yeah it does come with down laws of pausing rules yeah the slow communication have a let skin in the game and so i think really like we've learned once we unlock the first hire i see the value and stick with that mh really just trying to focus on kind of building that first rule with them to show them what we're doing okay and what's the issue with your current way of doing it we we have like a really good process it's just we have a lot of client staff someone i was like call pause role there's a lot of potential table for candidates that we have better interviewing and i think there's a lot more potential of kinda getting more of a streamlined profit me getting less in the leads course let me ask you your question because i think ask a better question you'll get a better answer is your question do i streamline operations this is an operational question or is this a scaling question of okay i did one point six i did two i wanna get to five or four year and right now i don't feel like i'm able to do that because of either a my business model or b by operation so what is your question on the business model and the growth side of things or is it on the operation yeah i would say we're on the business side like the search you said i guess i kind of set it in two questions but mainly i wanna scale right we're we're about to hit two million that jared i see a lot of potential i wanna figure out how how do i take this contingency recruiting business to five to seven million and being so yeah so how do you get customers right now really like ninety eight percent of referral you know i a really get really good palm base really get cut debate and a lot of people in the e comm space just as such a niche bait you know we get a lot of referral that way got it so if i mean fundamentally it i'll say i'll take a different question if you doubled the amount of people who are asking or you know roles right now would you be able to handle it i would say yet i think i would need to to bring on maybe a few extra recruiters at scale but ultimately like these clients use me because of me and the relationship to out sure i'm trying to figure out how do i stay a weed but still kinda of still ramp up and scale right like that yeah so let i'll cut you off for a second just to yeah so basically the the the question that i'm asking i'll i'll tell you the intention attention by the question is are you demand train or are you resupply constrained right and so right now if i were to say i can go send you more business could you handle it if the answer is yes then we don't focus on the supply side we focus on the demand side if it's i could handle more but sorry i i i i've got more people than than i can handle right now and i need to go get more recruiters so which side is it yeah i think we can handle more okay great so your demand constraint alright so from the demand perspective if you only have referrals then you need to have an input output in the business to get more leads correct okay so so it's actually gonna be so best way versus the best way for you will be two different things so you've got your you've got the core for if you're at the book yes right so you've got you've got warm outreach you've got cold outreach you've got content and you've got ads and then on the other side you've got affiliates right okay so based on your background you get recruits via outbound yeah like you got outbound or really all referrals directly from client yeah when you when you recruited my cmo it's because you're you're blasting people in linkedin hey would you be interested hey i got something you're doing outbound to git candidates which means you have the skill and muscle of outbound already you're just only using it for your supply what if you used it for your demand oh that makes that light bulb moment let's go there we go so fundamentally you already know your your metrics for your outbound funnel it's is you know we do a hundred connects and then hundred connects get us whatever five meetings and then mo five meetings turned into one fix or whatever it right all you have to do is just turn that external same exact funnel yeah who just focus more the outbound it yeah because it's your main game it's your main yeah i was gonna be like hey man learn ads it's just like i if you were like you know what we're real because the secondary thing i'll just be transparent with you because of the nature you're recruiting you probably have access to very good marketers and so if you could go recruit a cmo who go run the ads for you to go get those customers that would also be a play but in terms of if i'm gonna give like the absolute i had to bet my baby on the fact you'd be successful i would say do more of the thing that you're already doing just change the cup change the target that's it and since you've recruited for a whole bunch of different roles recruiting for customers if you think of it like that is i think the the natural step and you can for sure scale that to the moon for sure question of the like being a contingency focus right like lot of scheme the game obviously it's lowers for them higher reward for us how do i really kinda like demand sort of more communication making your clients are pausing roles there's a lot of things out of bark controlled at scale yeah i'm trying to figure out how two two things two things so are three things so one is gonna be the customer vetting right you have to have certain types of customers if shitty customers they're gonna treat you shit if you have good customers they tend to be more professional so part of that's gonna be what is our ideal customer number one number two the contingency thing the question is whether it's a feature or a bug right like this may just be a and like this happens all the time i'll have these conversations like what if we decide this isn't a problem anymore and all our measures the business are fine hey let's take a quick break you know hubspot help tumblr solve a big problem tumblr needed to move fast they were trying to produce trending content but their marketing department was stuck waiting on engineers to code every single email campaign but now they use hubspot customer platform to email real time trending content to millions of users in just seconds and the result was huge three times more engagement and double the content creation if you wanna move faster like tumblr visit hubspot dot com alright back to the show so what are your margins right now probably about fifty percent right okay so your margins are fine and the the issue that you have right now is it's just like it's like sometimes customers don't do what i want them to and i get it and your preference is not for that so the only tiny tweak you could consider when you have more demand but you don't have that which is why you have no leverage is that you could say listen our way of doing this is that you put a card down it is success based but if you don't follow our process we bill you a penalty because you're wasting our time so you can do that it's the easy easy fix on the front end and say listen the role is fifteen grand for the you know the the price range you're looking at we get thirty percent whatever the hell is right but we charge five if you waste our time now we don't wanna charge you anything right we don't wanna charge you anything now if you get a little bit more again this is where supply and demand come becomes important if you continue to get more and more demand then you start to have more and more the lever shift to you and you say listen i do half now and half when we complete the role because i've got and if you don't want it that's fine i got ten other guys behind you yep that makes sense so you have no leverage right now and it makes sense so number one i don't think you have a a steaming fire because you've got fifty percent margins and things seem to be going okay got ninety eight percent referrals which means you're good at what you do so i think we need to put some more in the front which is gonna be take the op outbound engine pointing towards customers and then be hyper target about the customers they're gonna be the best types and ideally you probably know what they look like like if you take the top twenty percent your customers now that are worth the most the beauty of outbound is you get snip who you want and so you can just say i'm only going after people who i know we're gonna do five rolls a year that's a good it's a good way to put it that way yeah car carson i think i think what alex just said is huge for i would not have used you had you been like give me a twenty k retainer for this role yeah why because you were a college kid you're like twenty years old you you haven't even mentioned that not broken you're doing this while you're were in college and so i think you used that to your advantage so i think the ref framing it in your own mind as a feature instead of a bug i think we'll do a lot of good against psychologically because it's your own mind as a founder that dr nuts and once you just literally just re label the same experience you're having you will have a new experience and so try try that out along with the outbound was that helpful carson was super helpful both the again thank you so much rock and roll baby later crush it alright let's take maybe one or two more what do you think more are your hot oil let's do it the weather is cold but the deals are hot what's up you're on the line you how you doing jordan hey how are you guys oh we got a group call we got the c founder in here is that right a c founder is here alright you got sean and this is alex can give us give us your names and your business name and then give us a one minute description what do you guys do and how is it going revenue wise i'm jordan ne justin f my c cofounder is also on the call our business is elite travel actors and we help business owners take their families on thirty to fifty thousand dollar luxury vacations for little to no money out of pocket using credit card points and we do that in two ways the first thing is we help them optimize and maximize the number of points that earning per year so those people will earn one point per dollar on their credit card spend we're typically able to get at least a three four x on those points earned so you help them get more points and then you help them spend it well yeah and then we help you spend it well the first class flights five star hotels luxury travel i wanna work little no money out of pocket so jordan is the business working right now or is it broken what we working yeah what's revenue what's yeah yep business is working you're doing about forty k a month right now we do have some earl that we've come into and and i'll let justin to kinda go through those oh he's the he's the guy who deals with the problems okay i'm gonna guess that your demand constrained that's gonna be my guess that could be wrong but go for it yeah so last month we actually got a a really big bounce we scale the eighty five k awesome and so spend a lot of time refining systems processes automations getting the next round of staff hired so that we can make the next big push on lead right now the majority of our business comes from referrals actually and then twenty percent of our business comes from like organic traffic and then we only have a twenty three percent close rate there so there's a massive gap between the referral and organic close rates you're are you saying eighty percent of the business referral or you guys said that that was the close rate no sorry sixty nine percent of the business referrals okay ninety eight percent close rate on referrals okay okay everybody closes and and the rest of the business is through organic do you just mean web traffic from google search or do you mean content based you or you know a mix of everything content based okay okay is your question like try to state the question as crisp as you can so what's the question you guys have how do we build trust faster and increase close from cold traffic is there a tweaking in our offer messaging i'm gonna i'm gonna we're i'm gonna rock your shit in a couple seconds so just tell me so what's the price point right now we three k to fifteen k okay so it's it scales depending on their whatever number of trips are taking yeah and how much they're spending out of pocket okay got it heard and so right now i'm assuming that you have the same sales process for referrals as you do for people from content yeah that's the issue so every every traffic source has to get treated differently because they have it basically if you think about a a a customer on a continuum there's a certain amount of information that has to get a consumed in order to make a decision and so what you need is a microwave you need something that's gonna heat them up really quickly and so right now walk me through the click to close so someone sees some post or some real they then what dm you or they go to your link or they common they get a mini chat like what do they do click dm dm okay so they dm you got it so after they dm there's a set in the dms right okay so gm center and then what happens after that into south calendar okay okay got it and that's it that's what happens is anything else set like they consume between set and close there's a sixty second warm up video saying hey come with this you know these data points so that we can maximize what you're doing yeah so you're missing that's all alright instead of a commercial break i'm gonna tell you a quick little story so a few years ago i got really into crypto bitcoin ethereum i was all about it and i wanted to be at the center of the action i didn't want just wanna buy the coins i actually wanted to be you know on the edge i wanted to be a part of the community that was actually building this thing and look i'm not a genius i don't know how to build a blockchain but i did realize that i could create a newsletter that would keep people up to date on what was going on in the world of crypto that's what i had wanted i wanted to know what's new what's interesting what should i pay attention to and i had friends that had sold their at our companies likes sam had built the hustle austin had built morning brew and they sold their newsletters for tens of millions of dollars so i thought how hard could it be i launched a newsletter called the milk crowd it was a daily crypto newsletter and it grew like wildfire we grew it from zero to over quarter million subscribers in a year partly because the content was good but partly because people were crazy about crypto and that was a good time to be doing this but the reality is that we wouldn't have been able to do that and build that business that we ended up selling a year later for millions of dollars had we not had bee bee was the reason we could do it in a year because if we didn't have that we would have had to build all sorts of custom stuff or pay expensive consultants do things or use five different tools and try to stitch them together bee just did it all for us it was it is the best way to start and grow a newsletter and email newsletters with this little secret of the business world because they're free to send the free to grow and you could build this incredible relationship between you and the readers so check it out b is actually offering thirty percent off your first three months if you use the code m m thirty so go to b hive dot com and then use the code m m thirty to get the deal today there's the link of the description so two things so here's here's what you're gonna write a seven minute vs esl alright and very simple you'll probably it's it it follows the same concept as a youtube video so you'll have a promise you'll have a pain that they're gonna help them avoid you're going to give them a plan of how it's all going to work and then you're gonna have proof that you can help them do that and that's gonna be in the first sixty seconds and then you're gonna have basically belief one belief number two and belief number three so basically the the three biggest objections that people bring up typically on on sales calls you're gonna break those down as a faqs during the thing and then and then you'll put your sixty second this is how you prep for the call alright that's what you do now you're gonna script that whole thing out and then i also want you to take that and put into a pdf and then you can send it because some people especially the more baller or bigger readers than they are watchers and so you could say hey here's two ways to consume it just watch it before the call and then when you do that close call the first question you ask after you say hey how's it going today then which you don't open a call that way but as you know whatever then you say hey did you did you get a chance to watch the video which you should have already done like the closer should double check that prior to the call and if for some reason they have not done it you say hey no worries when we grab a couple of coffee you can go play it i'll come back in seven minutes and then we can talk about it that way i'm not just bla a whole bunch of stuff because that way we can see the visuals and you can see everything as tight as humanly possible it's the best use of your time got it that's literally it now the second thing that i wanna do though is i wanna kinda of shift your belief a little bit because you said we're only closing twenty three percent twenty three percent isn't dog shit like i would say that you're you're gonna prop like if you just do this you're probably bumped to like mid thirties but that's that's just not it's not it's not weird that's just like a normal close rate and referrals are amazing that's why everybody do loved to have referrals but like if you if you like if you really wanna have your get get your mind blown start running ads it's gonna be way worse than the constant leads so you wanna treat warm light cold and you treat cold light cold by giving them more information part of the close got it that's literally like if you only need to do one thing that's all i gotta do and you have an increase in close rate that being said that's not gonna take you to five million years that's just gonna give you maybe a fifty percent lift on whatever you're currently doing and so once you do that you still have demand issues which means that you still need to have a reliable like basically like how can we make more and better content which is the the larger and more important question but do that first yeah so saw that one problem at a time and at the end of the day you wanna have your growth equation i think that's what he's talking about which is today i forgot what you said you're converting twenty nine percent or something like that it's like actually a pretty decent number if that if that number was forty what happens to our business right because you don't wanna put a transformational amount of effort into something that doesn't have a transformational result on the other side of it and you could just napkin in math and save yourself a lot of pain if that's what the situation be it might be that you can actually just double the number of referrals you're getting by doing something simple maybe today you're just getting them and you're not actually asking for them intelligently and and ramping that where you already have a ninety eight percent close rate so just make sure you do some napkin math on like what does the top of funnel look like before i go try to beat my head against the wall increasing this conversion you can increase your conversion and you should but it is worth doing some napkin math to see if i did this would this get me where i wanna go or is this just one block and i'm gonna have to figure out two more things after that but at least it's at least good to know that going in jordan what do you have a referral script you use right now oh i'll take that yeah so at the end of every onboarding call we're asking them who else they know how do you ask him just hey do think anybody else could use our services you've seen what it's like to do our credit card strategies can you connect me via a text or email yeah so i would tweak that this is just this is just a little golden b for you compliment them first so you can reframe it so you're like dude you're an absolute pleasure to deal with my god i talked to a bunch of different business owners every day if i could talk to only people like you i would so what other successful business owners like you do you know so that complements them twice before making an ask and most people are way happier to give you a referral also when you say i want other people who are successful like you you'll also get better referrals overall got it thanks perfect sense yeah little tweet one other one that might help there i think you said this really well with the gym business you're like people are in the maximum amount of pain when they show up the first time into the gym because it for them to have shown up that means they they acknowledge the problem have walked into your hands how how hard could to be to sell in your case you actually have a different situation which is when somebody's on their you know back from their vacation that you just booked for them for free and they just had incredible life changing experience it's probably a good moment to go ask them how was the trip and and then see if they you know what what they think for more trips as well as do they know anyone else that's looking at this because you're gonna have you're gonna be riding a momentum a huge wave of goodwill in that moment because you just they're gonna be on the high of their vacation planning a vacation is work experiencing and enjoying the vacation that's that's when they're in the sort of peak state to be able to ask as well and on the off boarding call that sean referencing if i were getting really tactical with you what i would do is when i call them up and say hey how's is the vacation i would ask do you have any pictures now they're gonna be like off how would did they wanna see right and you say hey so what friends would you normally send these pictures to if you want if you threw with me then you could say hey i got this whole vacation for free and send it to your friend just three way me in and then you're rocking rolling yeah helpful guys yeah for sure married as i asked my first girlfriend was at the best eight as of your life alright fellas we'll see you later see you guys alright her rosie hotline yeah alright here there we go alright caller number nine you are on air what's your name hello hello i'm dab alex sean great to be talking with you da where are you calling in from da from brooklyn new york alright da single mary wait no wrong show here we go da you tell us about what's going on what's your business so i am a contact creator and a little bit different than probably a lot of the businesses that call in because i have a big audience and i have all the traffic and i have absolutely no idea what to sell them you need a money model you have distribution and no product is that what you're saying i got distribution no product oh okay and i won the school games last year oh and alex you know this you in may and i was about to ask you the question i'm about to ask and your assistant came in and said alex you have a wedding you need to walk that checks out last the year and then i saw sean's tweet yesterday and i was like you know what and if if your life was a movie this is this is that that this is the moment where it comes circle alright moment again what is the question you've been waiting a year to ask are you'd an entertain educator real quick i leans towards education i mean i make content for college guys and guys about how do to get internships how to get jobs how do they how to managed yeah thoughts how to make money like it's it's really just virtual big brother stuff okay i have two hundred million views three hundred fifty thousand followers so a big only of young dudes and i wanna make a big swing in the per what per month per year per what two hundred million views over the last three years oh what are you what are you monthly five to ten okay and this is tiktok we're talking about they talk to instagram yeah you have five hundred okay okay go on yep and so i have this big army of young dudes that i could do a pan community i can do a mentorship but i think that there's a bigger play they're with maybe employing a lot of them or building an app and launching it across college campuses and i just i've been building this audience and i i'm not sure what's the big swing that i should be making there but before we start being no at all and tell you what to do what are you have you already tried anything i mean i've just i committed to making two or three short form videos a day for the last couple years outside of my day to day other pursuit so i haven't tried much what's your day to day other pursuit my mom is a physician coach and she was doing twenty or thirty a month and now we're doing two hundred and thirty last month so basically just building high ticket sales marketing fulfillment for burned out dodgers got it well i'll tell you a secret burned out doctors have more pain and more money than broke college guys by an order of magnitude i know i don't wanna keep freaking with my mom okay sorted that i've i've yeah i mean if you think there's not a big big guy there's not a big cry here then maybe i'm embarking a wrong trip the question is what do like what do you wanna have happened happen and if you're like oh i think so i'll i'll tell you i'll cut i'll i wanna give a little tiny reality check which is like five to ten million views a month is not bad it's also not crazy so like you have enough to do a business for sure this isn't like i'm sitting on a hundred million dollar like you're not getting a dollar review i just wanna like put that put some perspective there also your tiktok views are not worth nearly close to what your instagram views are it's probably a factor of ten to twenty x difference in terms of the value per view k especially if it's a little bit more meme a little bit more humor any like that it's just like you can just you could just drop it to through the floor like education versus entertainment the the revenue per per per thousand views is like it's huge difference okay i just wanna just level set there so fundamentally if you've got these guys and they want what careers they want jobs well it it's not like i'm like mister internship i'm not saying that i'm the best on the career ever but they looked to me for input on all this life stuff like whether it's how to land their first date how to get an internship of how to whatever and i did a bunch of dms that are like dude you spoke the thoughts that were in my brand you like you know me so well and i think i builds up enough trust with them that if i wanted them to like quit a job or come works for me to do something so that's why i'm thinking maybe i could build something yeah on the basket that'd not sides you up so i'll i'll i'll give you just a little bit of a continuum that exists for you right and this is super common for people who are content creators and it all the the the continuum exists on on a risk continuum and so on one side all the way the end you have start a business that you're gonna do everything for alright that's like that's all the way the other side it takes the most skill but you have the most risk alright on the opposite end you have gonna be affiliate of something which is i'm just gonna promote someone else's stuff and i'm gonna get a percentage right that's the that's the other extreme now next to that you've got sponsorships so if i'm really good at that people start paying me ahead of time and that's a hundred percent gross margin and it scales as i scale my my content which is not necessarily a bad thing in the middle you've got partnerships which is like okay i'm gonna be the exclusive guy who promotes this specific thing and i'm gonna get some shares or get some royalties whatever it is that i can negotiate in that deal and i'll just let somebody else run the business while i just continue to promote next to that you've got white labels alright so it's like okay i don't wanna i don't wanna actually run the business but i do wanna have my own brand and i have all the equity and then the very last one which is what i started with which is like you own it all right it's you you you source everything you manufacture if you wanna do products and so those are kinda like those are kind of your options right now if you wanted to get in the business now you can der risk your current thing by a lot by trying some stuff on the left and seeing out outperform so you can basically you have the luxury of being able to test product market fit before doing anything so you can easily affiliate someone else's thing see what the demand looks like and if it crush then you're oh i got something here and if it doesn't crush then you didn't have to like do all the other shit associated with that build the business right exactly so you have this really nice position that you're in so number one i would probably work my way from least risky to most risky as i basically validated whatever thing i wanna sell and then second for tiktok i'll just give you a little hack the people who the the people i've seen who monetize best off tiktok they're their cta on tiktok is dm me on instagram mh and then they work the dms on this instagram for whatever reason ig just confer way better to monetize than tiktok us so they just drive they just use tiktok as a traffic platform to send a convert on instagram got it can you give me an example of some of the things that you would try affiliate for well the so you you you said a lot of stuff you're like you have like dating stuff you have like you know which probably gets into like looks maxing and all that stuff i don't even know then you've got like i wanna get a job stuff then you've got like biz stuff which i'm like the biggest fan of but like you you know whatever so like you have a lot of different pieces there and then obviously there's just like services that you can charge for them but the thing that i'd really hate about this particular customer is that they're broke and so the easiest i mean i i don't think the idea that you had on starting with school communities is a terrible idea because you can you can have a very large community you can continue to serve them and you can have a low ticket price point that'll kind of like you can you can use that as an initial launch pad build the community and then be like basically say like tell me what you guys want and i'll do that and then you can monetize in the meantime does that make sense yes that's it so that's a that's an that's like the easy super low risk like doesn't does if you're like hey man i wanna make hundred million dollars i don't have a clear path for from where you're at right now to get there besides just like starting as though you didn't even have the brand you have well if you had a fleet of loyal guys that maybe you could turn into good salespeople or turning to ambassadors or if you have to launch something across college campuses like if you had this resource and it was your only foundation to get to a hundred million dollars of ten million dollars what would you if you can train a skill which i didn't hear but that you just mentioned that sales thing if you can train a skill exceptionally well then you can absolutely source and place salespeople for large door to door companies that and a lot of college guys are willing to just like relocate after college anyways and you know make six figures a year or six figures in a summer if they crush it for that and those companies are happy to pay you know referral fees upon success of those of those types of guys and if you can develop a long term reputation as being very very good at training them like you can very easily run cohorts where you say hey you're gonna fly out to this place we're gonna spend a i'm gonna train you and then after that you'll graduate and then you'll go out and into the world and be fruitful and multiple you could very well charge you know probably five thousand dollars somewhere in there for people to come out learn how to sell and then basically you'll have a bunch of connections from different people that you can use your own content to go source those relationships with so just get like get a vi get a you know get some of the big get all alarm system company whatever and get those ones to just say hey will you take take people for me and then you can also make money on both sides there that like the best thing that you can do for those guys is use them as the product mh i got a question for you soul searching question are you trying to be a content creator who makes money you're trying to be an entrepreneur who uses content to be your question wow that's a great question gut instinct you can change mind later but just got and instinct what i said that what which one did your heart going if you have to fully commit to this for life i wanna be honest entrepreneur you wanna be entrepreneur great so i think the constraints of what business can i start using this tiktok audience for this customer is actually not serving you at all yeah just be thinking what business do i wanna be in where i see an opportunity and i feel passionate about solving it and i'm gonna flex my content muscles probably as one of my growth levers to do that and this all this did was this was the gym where i was working out and building that muscle but i didn't build it to use it in the gym i built it to use it in the real world somewhere else and so i think that sometimes you have to pick the constraint properly the constraint of using it in this biz using it using their current tiktok audience is not the right one the other thing i do is i try to get real so not only is a certain number of views different per platform but just as a simple test right if you went to a college campus if you just put on take tiktok and put on instagram hey i'm gonna be at penn state if you wanna hunt come hang out i'm gonna be at this place from this hour to this hour how many people do you think would show up at penn state probably between ten and electric ten hundred okay that's a pretty big spread i i think you should go try it i would be surprised if the number was a hundred i'm be shocked if it was a hundred i'd be surprised if it was even ten and the reason i say that is because the way that the nature of tiktok and the of short form content is that they're not loyal to you they're loyal to the feed and you might show up from time to time and so the reason to do that is to basically wash away your tie and your connection your your invisible sunk cost too but i've already built this audience because actually what you're what you built was this the muscle of short form content you probably haven't built an army of people who like listen and trust you like you will get more views let's say on this on your tiktok that i will get on my podcast but if i tweet something out that i'm going somewhere from my podcast i'll get people there because i spend hundreds of hours in their ears this a different level of connection and so i i say all this to just say if you really wanna be an entrepreneur break out of that to that constraint of how do i sell these college dudes who i've been entertaining with random tiktok about random shit and what's the best business i can build in that tiny tiny box to be like just get out of the box and then build the best business you can and i bet you'd kick ass that way because you seem like you're somebody who use pretty high agency and pretty kick ass but don't constrain don't tie one hand behind you and davey david i'll i'll soften what sean said which is normally not my role but i what you can use the brand for let's say you don't sell to this audience and you don't sell them as the product either let's say you just say like i did this thing and i learn the skill you can still use it to recruit for whatever business you want and that is actually still a massive w you can just skim up you say you got these guys for super low wanna work it's like great work for me yep cool yep appreciate it alright awesome appreciate you thanks for calling man appreciate it guys thanks alright too awesome so there we go alright that's a wrap on the h hotline i feel like i could rule world i know i could be what i want to put at all in it like a days on on a travel have a look my friends if you like m then you're gonna like the following podcast it's called a billion dollar moves and of course it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network the number one audio destination for business professionals billion dollar moves it's hosted by sarah chen spelling sarah is a venture capitalist and strategist and with billion dollar moves she wants to look at unicorn founders and fund and she looks for what she calls the unexpected leader many of them were underestimated long before they became huge and successful and iconic she does it with unfiltered conversations about success failure fear courage and all that great stuff so again if you like my first million check out billion dollar moves it's brought to you by the hubspot podcast network again billion dollar moves